RL7836 Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Thought I'd share a pic of some young D. derbyensis plants and see if others have observed this with their plants (and to see if anyone has recommendations for next steps). After germination, all of the plants were glabrous. At some point, one of the plants decided to become pubescent but interestingly, the other 2 have resisted the 'change' (the 2nd green plant is located on the far side of the pubescent one with some arms visibly reaching out from the back). In other pots of D. derbyensis plants which germinated at the same time, all of the plants have changed to a white fuzz on the petioles. I continue to think the 2 green plants will change but it has been months..... The green plants also seem to have a black covering ... that looks similar to a condition not-infrequently seen with D. petiolaris plants moved to a less-humid environment. However, these plants are in a quite humid tank where even D. falconeri is happily producing lots of dew.... Thoughts, suggestions, observations very welcome... Currently my plan is to repot into individual pots and see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andreas Eils Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 The hairy one is quite fantastic - and of course one for my MUST-HAVE-list! I´ve never seen such a blackening on plants of the Petiolaris complex but wonder if it could be a fungus infestation. Regards, Andreas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Berg Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Hello, the hairs on the plants can change with the conditions - so they are hairier during dry conditions and more glabrous during wet conditions. But as you are cultivating them in the same pot, this cannot be the case. I have also made a interesting observation on my D. aff. dilatato-petiolaris from Acacia flats: One and the same plant was covered with long white hair last autumn, and now it is almost glabrous. I have kept it wet year-round, so I cannot say a reason for that. A problem I heard from, is that some of the Petiolaris-species or forms may be just hybrids - this will explain that seed-grown plants can look very various. But nevertheless, the D. petiolaris-complex is very interesting. I tried to made some hybrids this year of lots of my plants, I will see if there are some plants looking like real species. Regards, Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Allan Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Hi Ron, I can't answer your question, but, as Andreas says, the hairy one is absolutely stunning! Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 A problem I heard from, is that some of the Petiolaris-species or forms may be just hybrids - this will explain that seed-grown plants can look very various. Hi Markus, Andreas Fleischmann made similar observations last year concerning hybrids in this post: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12006 I think this group of plants has not yet told us all of it's secrets (in many areas). For example, I would like to see hybrids of D. petiolaris x D. falconeri and compare them to D. kenneallyi. At least one grower with which I've spoken believes they may be the same... & given their morphology, this would not be a shock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 You're collecting some useful data as well as a nice plant or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelljuhg Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Well, D. broomensis also has 2 types of clones, which are the hairy ones and the less hairy ones, although I do not know whether it can be called a hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi guys, I often see this hybrid question raised by CPers in regards to petiolaris-complex Drosera. Yes there do appear to be many hybrids in the wild and even more in cultivation. But simple hybrids are usually very easily identified in the wild, especially by people who have tons of field experienced like Allen Lowrie. That's because they occur near one or both parents, are usually less numerous than either parent, and often are not as ecologically successful as the parents. But many plant species havy hybrid ORIGIN, which is quite different since they originated from some sort of cross, but became reproductively isolated and independent from either parent. Like D.anglica and D.tokaiensis. So D.kenneallyi could have a hybrid origin, but now acts as an individual species in the wild. You'll need some sort of genetic analysis to discover if this is true or not.... Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted May 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 Update. Within days after snapping the previous pic, the green plant in the photo put out its larges leaves ever. I found this a bit odd since I had done absolutely nothing differently (didn't even take it out for picture) ... but I kept an eye on the pot. After the larger leaves, now the new leaves are starting to show a hairy covering... ... all it took was posting to get the plant to grow some hair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Some suspect the black stuff is "peat tea", wicked up by the plant. Others suspect fungus/mold. Maybe even transported there by mites. Check the walls of your tank for mites. You can do this with a hand magnifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted May 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 Some suspect the black stuff is "peat tea", wicked up by the plant. Others suspect fungus/mold. Maybe even transported there by mites. Check the walls of your tank for mites. You can do this with a hand magnifier. I agree that it does look like a fungus/mold. I've had conversations with other growers who have it also - usually when a D. petiolaris experiences a drop in humidity in its environment. Typically a temporary condition - if humidity is increased.... interesting / odd phenomenon (that I could do without). No sign of mites and no other evidence of their existence (that I can find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Here's the final update pic in this mini-saga. For months, the 3 plants grew as shown in the 1st photo. Soon after posting that pic, (and Matt suggesting I had mites ... ), the plant on the left started to add 'fuzz' as shown in the 2nd photo. Here the plant has almost completely transitioned to officially 'wooly' arms and also decided to grow somewhat more robustly. Notice that the small plant on the far side is still green (w/ black patches). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosolis76 Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Hey, Woo I have the same problem with my 2 D.dilato-petiolaris locations, the leaves become black like yours!!! Best Regards, Damien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Hey,Woo I have the same problem with my 2 D.dilato-petiolaris locations, the leaves become black like yours!!! This issue w/ the D. derbyensis was especially unusual because 1) they were pubescent woolies and 2) not all of the plants in the same pot reacted similarly. The blackened tips in D. petiolaris and D. dilatato-petiolaris is a fairly common reaction to reduced humidity and can usually be resolved quite easily by increasing humidity levels. If you want to grow the plants in lower humidity, acclimate the plants slowly ... This issue was discussed over here: Black petiolaris leaves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic brown Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Ron, I missed this thread when it started - I was at Chelsea Flower Show in May and at the ICPS in Maryland in June when the second photos were posted. I'm glad its been undated. Very interesting phenomena and exactly the same symptoms that I also have on my D. ordensis plants at the moment, with not all the plants in the pot affected, nor any other plants in the terrarium affected either.. D. ordensis However, are you sure of your I.D.? Your D. derbeyensis plants look more like D. ordensis to me! My own plants have much narrower leaf laminas. Allen Lowrie's published description of D. derbeyensis (Allen Lowrie (1996) 'New species in Drosera section, Lasiocephala (Droseraceae) from tropical northern Australia.' Nuytsia 11. pp 55- 69.) states; D. derbeyensis has narrow leaves densely covered with white woolly hairs similar to D. lanata and in the key in this paper;Petiole very narrowly oblanceolate... The leaves on yours look much broader than on my D. derbeyensis and in my opinion, based on my own plants and my interpretation of Allen Lowrie's published descriptions, your plants are of D. ordensis. This is how my plants look: D. derbeyensis Cheers Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanW Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Great discussion and awesome photos. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL7836 Posted October 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2006 Hi Vic, Interersting D. ordensis plants. Thanks for sharing. You asked about the D. derbyensis in the pics: However, are you sure of your I.D.? Based on everything I read & see about this complex - I don't think I could ever be certain with an ID! However - some thoughts:- these 3 plants came from seed purchased from Triffid Nurseries - maybe Andy knows their origin? - I have grown 5 different groups of different D. derbyensis plants - most appear similar to the center one in my pics. Only one comes close (clone from Triffid Park) to the petiole width of yours (that one seems to be close to D. broomensis!). I'm also wondering if the more narrow petiole width on my TP plant is due to higher humidity / less pubescence? With many of the hairier plants in this group, lower humidity seems to usually increase pubescence (or the reverse) which also increases the perception of petiole width... - 2 of the 3 groups of plants came from Lowrie seed - directly. I hesitate to draw ID conclusions on plants that are not yet adult size. For example - the plants in the above pics are probably 1/3rd to 1/2 normal adult size (or less). As the white petiole plant in the top pic grew, the max width of the petiole stayed the same but the length grew. This changed the proportions significantly. Even w/ all that, I do agree that the left plant in my pics above does have a D. ordensis look to the petiole .... hmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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