it's a Green Dragon???

[Melly]

[Alexis]

It's too early to tell. Most of the red clones start off green. Unless you bought it in America, it's also unlikely to be a Green Dragon.

[3sgjeffery]

is it royal red then?

[brad]

Here are the names of some so called ‘All Red VFT’ or more accurately called ‘Red Petioled VFT’

Green Dragon

Red Dragon

Holland Red

Royal Red

Regal Red

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Good luck separating and identifying them from each other.

Also ‘Red Piranha’ is a ‘Red Petioled VFT’.

Brad

Ventura California

[uglypho]

I believe there is also Pink Venus.

[EntwinedScylla]

Not to mention that if you have certain typicals growing in extremely low light, they develop solid red trap enteriors with the "red line" and red margin. The petioles on these will also be red.

I have a large adult plant and a lot of little babies that are just so. I believe someone calls these "carolina red"

[Lophophora]

Hi Melly

I think that your plant is possibly a 'Green dragon' = 'Royal red'

But more pics of your plant could help, and to see the development in the time...

here is a good website where you can find nice comparating pics

http://www.dionaea-muscipula.com/photo-aspect.html

This is Mij website.

a presto,

:winknkiss:

[Guest Sheila]

I think that your plant is possibly a 'Green dragon' = 'Royal red'

My royal red is different to green dragon. Green dragon has a green band around the edge of the traps, the plant I have called royal red is completely red grown in the same conditions.

[Alexis]

Royal Red is the Australian plant whereas Green Dragon is the American relation to Red Dragon.

[TheCarnifreak]

Royal Red is the Australian plant whereas Green Dragon is the American relation to Red Dragon.

So it's a double name again??

There are a lot of double names, like sawtooth/dentata or akai ryu/red dragon.

Why can there not just one right name be maintained? :?

Ries

[Alexis]

No, they're all separate plants. Royal Red is a big healthy red clone (although identical to Clayton's Volcanic Red apparently). Red Dragon is the original red VFT, although superseded by better clones in my opinion. Green Dragon is the oddball - a better grower than the Red Dragon, but usually (but not always) stays green around the edge of the traps.

[Nepenthes Nut]

We might have to do DNA testing to figure out what variation is which and if we have duplicates.

[Alexis]

Well there are only a few red ones and they are all reasonably easy to tell apart, except for the Australian Royal Red / Clayton's doo-dah / Regal Red which is a bit of a muddle.

[BobZ]

Red Dragon is the original red VFT...

Actually, the original all red VFT was selected from thousands of wild-collected VFTs sent to the Netherlands in the mid-1970s and became widely distributed and known as 'Holland Red'. 'Akai Ryu' (or 'Red Dragon' in English) was developed in the 1990's by Ron Gagliardo from breeding 'Holland Red' isolated by Theo de Groot in Holland with pollen from an all red sawtooth isolated by Thomas Carow in Germany. This breeding resulted in 20 viable seeds from which 7 clones were established in tissue culture. 'Akai Ryu' was one of these and 'Green Dragon' another.

A nice description of 'Red/Holland Red', 'Red Burgundy', 'Royal Red', and 'Aku Ryu/Red Dragon' by Marcus Erbacher and Martin Stöekl is in Das Taublatt 51, pages 18-27; and the official description of 'Aku Ryu/Red Dragon' is in CPN.

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/Species/v25n2p50.html

[Alexis]

Ah, yes. I remember a Cambrian Carnivores catalogue a few years ago which had in it 'Thomas Carow's red clone - the ORIGINAL all red clone'.

[Chloroplastik]

Hello Bob,

with pollen from an all red sawtooth isolated by Thomas Carow in Germany

As far as I know it was a cross between the all red form selected by de Groot and a Sawtooth (I mean the usual one). Thomas Carow hasn't selected any all red sawtooth so far.

Bye

[brad]

‘Red Dragon’ is the result of a self crossing of ‘Holland Red’ by Ron Gagliardo of Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (It was an attempt of a crossing of ‘Holland Red’ and ‘Sawtooth’).

‘Green Dragon’ is a Tissue Culture Sport of ‘Red Dragon’ discovered at Agristarts Tissue Culture Facility in Florida.

‘Holland Red’ is Holland Red.

‘Red Dragon’ is Red Dragon.

‘Green Dragon’ is Green Dragon.

‘Royal Red’ is Royal Red.

Very simple.

Brad

Ventura California

[Alexis]

Except 'Royal Red' is also 'Clayton's Volcanic Red' too

[BobZ]

‘Red Dragon’ is the result of a self crossing of ‘Holland Red’ by Ron Gagliardo of Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (It was an attempt of a crossing of ‘Holland Red’ and ‘Sawtooth’).

Hmmm. Here is what Ron Gagliardo had to say in CPN 25(2):50

The parents of this new cultivar were an all red form (female) and a "toothless" or fine tooth form (male) of Dionaea muscipula. The all red parent is apparently the same clone that was isolated by Mr. Theo de Groot in Holland over a decade ago and has been in limited cultivation here in the United States since. The toothless form was originally isolated by Mr. Thomas Carow in Nudlingen, Germany.

I got the "all red sawtooth" comment from the Erbacher and Stöekl article, although I admit my German translation may be faulty.

The 'Akai Ryu' is a descendant the 'Holland red'. Ron Gagliardo of the Atlanta Botanic garden tried to cross an 'all red sawtooth' form. He dusted blooms the 'Holland red' with pollen of the 'Sawtooth'.

[Guest Aidan]

There may be further confusion with straightforward dentate clones sometimes being referred to as 'Sawtooth' amongst German growers.

[brad]

There may be further confusion with straightforward dentate clones sometimes being referred to as 'Sawtooth' amongst German growers.

German growers are not confused.

The ‘German Dentate’ is called ‘Sawtooth’ by others.

Brad

Ventura California

[Guest Aidan]

OK, I'm confused... 'Sawtooth' is the correct cultivar name.

... and from an earlier thread :?

Sawtooth was sometimes called "Toothless" in the 90's. This name persists in a few collection.

Is anyone actually growing 'Holland Red'? I can't find the plant in any Grow List posted here and there is only a single image linked on the Photofinder.

[Chloroplastik]

The ‘German Dentate’ is called ‘Sawtooth’ by others.

It's Dentata, not Dentate.

Dentata was the first name given by Thomas Carow and he's still using it. Sawtooth is the official name. And Combtooth, Finetooth/Fineteeth, Toothless were also used.

Aidan, I grow Holland Red cv and I will post a picture in a few weeks when it will be more distinct from the other red clones, I don't want to add more confusion.

Red Dragon’ is the result of a self crossing of ‘Holland Red’ by Ron Gagliardo of Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (It was an attempt of a crossing of ‘Holland Red’ and ‘Sawtooth’).

Holland Red' x Holland Red' = Holland Red"

The progeny of a HR's self crossing is very similar to the parents.

How do you know that the cross between Holland Red and Sawtooth didn't work? It's really difficult to know that...and perhaps more than this...

Bye

[brad]

‘German Dentate’ called ‘Dentata’ by Germans and ‘Sawtooth’ by others. Originated by Thomas Carow of Germany.

‘American Dentate’ called ‘Dente’ by many and ‘Dentate’ by others. Originated by Leo Song of California, USA.

‘Australian Dentate’ called ‘Shark’s Teeth’ by some and ‘Shark Tooth’ by others. Originated by Colin Clayton of Australia.

‘Green Dragon’ is a tissue culture sport of ‘Red Dragon’, which is the progeny of ‘Holland Red’ cross ‘Dentata’.

‘Holland Red’ originated by Theo de Groot of Holland.

‘Red Dragon’ originated by Ron Gagliardo of Georgia, USA.

‘Green Dragon’ originated by Agristarts Tissue Culture of Florida, USA.

Brad

Ventura California

[Chloroplastik]

Hello brad,

I don't think is really usefull to use or to invent new names for those clones. It's confused because several plants from the "Dentate Traps group" have been isolated in the US for example :

-Red Piranha

-Dentate Traps

-Jaws

It's the same in Germany, in France and in Czech Republic.

Shark Teeth is sold by Triffid Aus. but Colin Clayton did not select it. This clone was imported in Australia by Collectors Corner from the Atlanta Botanical Garden. So it's another "American Dentate" or an Australo-american one

You don't answer to my question: "How do you know that the cross between Holland Red and Sawtooth didn't work?"

You said first:

Red Dragon’ is the result of a self crossing of ‘Holland Red’ by Ron Gagliardo of Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (It was an attempt of a crossing of ‘Holland Red’ and ‘Sawtooth’).

then:

‘Red Dragon’, which is the progeny of ‘Holland Red’ cross ‘Dentata’

Well, we don't know if it's a self crossing or not but I understand that you have some reason to suppose it.

Bye