long petioles vft

[Guest mhvft]

Hi everyone

i recently aquired a new variety of vft called long petioles the plant as in the name has very long and narrow petioles and small traps

has any one else come across them before and are they different to vft spider?

thanks

mark

[Graham]

Where did you get your plant from? I can't find it here - http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Errz7001/Dionaea.html so i am guessing its probably the descriptive name someone has applied to their plant to differentiate it from the other plants they grow. VFT Spider is a specific clone - named by Alistair "PopeSpliv" Pearce, and originally grown by Nigel Hurneyman (not a lot of people know that :) :) :) ). VFT Spider produces in my experience quite respectable sized traps.

[BobZ]

mhvft, it would be interesting to see a photo of your plant. There is another VFT in circulation developed by Phil Golding (aka Spacer) in Oregon that he named "Creeping Death" that also maintains the growth habit of long upright petioles. The traps are normal size.

Photos can be found at

http://www.ourcpsite.com/creeper.html

http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/zphotos/V...epingDeath.html

[Mike King]

Hi Mark,

There are a few VFT clones that do that, but to call it another name... I just refer to them as 'Vertical' but not as a cultivar. Which outlet was selling you that?

[Trev]

On the subject, anyone got the opposite plant - ie. VERY short petioles and large traps, something that looks like the traps almost grow straight out of the ground?

Trev.

[Guest Aidan]

Tamlin - This is a subject on which I and others have very strong and often polarised views. We have had long and at times vitriolic discussions about the 'varieties' of VFT before.

As far as I can see there are very, very few VFT that can be considered anything other than typical plants. The fact that this one is a teeny, tiny bit pinker than that one, or that this one grows a 1/4" taller than the other one is neither here nor there. To register these plants as cultivars would do no more than damage the cultivar system which is already being debased by the registration of plants that are in no way special.

If all these 'different' VFT are registered then we may as well register every single Sarracenia species and hybrid plant raised from seed. They all show variation albeit small. But then what would be the point, as this would render the cultivar system entirely worthless?

[brad]

Tamlin,

I was curious about a VFT called “Carolina Red”. Do you know if this plant possesses any special traits or characteristics.

I would be supportive of efforts to help distinguish worthy clones of VFT.

But in my small collection I have typical VFT from garden centers and hardware stores which have:

Redder traps than “Blood Red”

Yellower traps than “Yellow”

Longer trap cilia than “Fang”

Year round rosetted forms.

Summer uprights that are tall and slender.

VFT Dentate seems different however, maybe this should be registered.

Hoping to learn about “Carolina Red”

Take care,

Brad

Ventura California

[Guest Aidan]

Brad - The dentate form is registered as a cultivar.

[brad]

Tamlin,

I appreciate your efforts and concern about making sense of the Genus Dionaea.

We could have a locked forum on this site with a listing of all named VFT plants that anyone who would like to contribute and describe the traits. As people submit their observations the list could be updated.

Dentate Traps – short triangular trap cilia. Bright red inner trap with good light. Petiole, corm, roots, and inflorescence typical for the species. Original plant selected from wild collected plants, by Leo Song of Fullerton, California, so a wild plant. Dentate Trap features are passed to progeny in pollination studies.

Fang – long trap cilia. It is the common plant in the Australian nursery trade distribution to garden centers and hardware stores, by tissue culture mass production. Typical plant otherwise, including petiole, corm, roots, and inflorescence.

Creeping Death –

Vigorous –

Swiss Giant –

Red Dragon –

Clayton’s Volcanic Red –

Royal Red –

SouthWest Giant –

Red-Purple –

Big Mouth –

Spider –

Yellow –

Blood Red –

Bart Simpson –

Wacky Traps –

Red piranha –

Regal red –

Red Giant –

Heterodoxa –

All Green –

Red Green –

Low Giant –

Triffid Traps –

Sawtooth –

Oxford Red –

Pink Venus -

Some sense is needed. I think.

If you organize an open forum on seriously cataloging the traits I will fully support it.

Brad

Ventura California

[BobZ]

Brad, such a descriptive list sounds like a good idea, particularly if the the descriptions clearly include the wording of the standards for those cultivars that are already registered and a discussion of how the unregistered cultivars differ from the registered ones. Without this, the earlier more comprehensive registered name takes preference. See for example the registered 'Dentate traps' (B.Meyers-Rice) [Registered 30. 3. 2000 (JS)] and the unregistered subservient 'Dentate' (D'Amato) and 'Dente' (D'Amato).

[Zongyi_yang]

another intresting thing i found in dentate. mine is still growing very long and thin petioles that stand near vertical (70-80 degrees) while my typical ones are growing very close to the ground for some time now. don't know if all dentates are like that, but my few dentates are. Zongyi

[Guest Aidan]

There is a further problem in this VFT minefield in that plants that are almost certainly the same clone are being circulated under more than one name. Registering such plants will set these errors in stone.

[Guest mhvft]

thanks everyone

i got my plant from andy at triffid nurseries and it is very different from the vertical vft which i got from mike king the petioles are a lot narrower on the long petioles and andy told me it was a different variety of vft

i cannot provide a photo as i havent a digital camera as yet

i agree though its very confusing know what are true varities and what are one and the same with different names.

mark

[Mike King]

Just on a side note, the simple origin of 'Dente' was a spelling error of 'Dentate' at Agristarts. Since then people have been naming the same plants those 2 names.

[Guest Aidan]

Tamlin - Regrettably I can see that this is an issue that we will forever be at odds over. I just don't share your optimism that everything will naturally sort itself out. The example Mike gives above is an apposite one. I believe your point of view is that one of these plants would be rejected at the point of registration as already being registered. My point of view is that the descriptions and photographs would vary enough for both to be accepted despite the fact that they are the same clone.

There are other examples and I have seen growers with "both" plants swear blind that they are different despite all evidence to the contrary.

[JanW]

Hi,

in Germany Thomas Carow sells plants labeled 'long petiole'. Possibly he created this "name"...?

Jan

[Guest Aidan]

Tamlin - One of the great things about this forum is that we are all free to express our views.

I am more than happy to buy you a beer.......maybe even two, but I would steer well clear of that mass produced waste product of fermentation that you mention. Perhaps we can argue about beer too! :mrgreen:

I think your aims are laudable and we can agree that perhaps the worst problem with our mutual interest in carnivorous plants is that of misidentified, mislabelled plants. I go to great lengths to ensure the accuracy of my own Grow List, but even so I expect I have a few incorrectly identified plants. VFT are a particular headache but it is also true of all the others. My fear is that mass cultivar registration will only add to the confusion rather than clarifying matters.

[Alexis]

Ok, I'll put my 2 cents in as it were.

The cultivar system has already been discussed but the single genus of D. muscipula is a whole different kettle of fish in my opinion as opposed to the unlimited numbers of sarracenia which can be bred. A cultivar is quite rightly a plant with outstanding qualities, but that system is very limited for certain plant species. You don't come across a myriad of drosera binata varieties for example, because there are few varieties. There are hundreds of VFTs with names however, which is fine in my opinion if there was a central database of descriptions. This would be different from the cultivar system because they are descriptions of bog (excuse the pun) standard plants. There are only so many outstanding varieties of one plant species and in the case of VFTs that would surely be limited to a few things such as teeth shape, red colouration and trap size.

Bob's photo site goes a long way towards a solution and maybe if this was combined with a standardised description, date and location system like the cultivar method, we would have a classification of every VFT.

Oh, and mine's a Fosters Aidan, cheers