Sign in to follow this  
blueflytrap

Sarracenias in the Lake District

Recommended Posts

Dear all,

Having come to the conclusion that my dream of seeing Sarracenia in the wild, will probably never happen, I wonder if somebody could provide the information for the next best thing?

Is there anybody who could supply me with the specific location information of the colony of Sarracenia purpurea that are growing wild in the Lake District?

It goes without saying that there will be no damage done, nothing taken etc etc.

Please PM me if you do not wish to broadcast this info.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought their location was a closely guarded secret held by a select few who were sworn to secrecy! :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which I have always found bemusing bearing in mind they are introduced here and in some locations have had an adverse effect on local plants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmm.

I always thought English Nature was determined to stamp out such Sarracenia purpurea as remained in the wild.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sheila
Hmmmm.

I always thought English Nature was determined to stamp out the naturalised Sarracenia purpurea.

Probably one of the reasons those in the know are not saying :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL.

Oh, b**ger.

:shock:

I'm sorry, but I think English Nature is right on this one, purpurea shouldn't be allowed to get a foot-hold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Aidan

I know of two sites that have been cleared of plants, one by English Nature. One of those sites has since been replanted. :?

I'm convinced people are still out there planting. In fact it would only take one person and who knows, that person might just be reading this thread.

Two 'new' sites have recently been confirmed to me with the possibility of a third. No, I'm not allowed to disclose those locations... on pain of death! :shock: I can say that they are not in the Lake District.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know of two sites that have been cleared of plants, one by English Nature. One of those sites has since been replanted. :?

I am probably the person who instigated the removal of at least one of those colonies...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmmm..... An interesting debate guys, but I'm still no nearer getting to see the plants! LOL!

Am I reading the thread right? Is the reluctance to release this info ("No, I'm not allowed to disclose those locations... on pain of death!") because there is a fear that they will removed in the name of 'conservation' or because they will be removed by poachers?

I can understand the 'dont release because of the poachers' side of the argument (even though I wouldn't cause them harm).

I can see that there is a conservation issue, has there been any studies to show that introduced S. purpurea are actually causing harm to the local ecosystem?

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on your last question: where they have been introduced in Ireland they carpet the groung quite effectively, no natural predators to keep them under control, so they are displacing native plants and catching local invertebrates. They are displacing plants form very fragmented and much reduced in area (95% + in the last half century), bogs which cannot afford to lose more area. they are trapping inverts specialist to these bog habitats outwith the bounds of native population dynamics with unpredictable results, not sure if anyone has looked specifically...it's a common-sense thing rather than something which has to be proved statistically. Lastly, most areas where they have been planted are SSSIs, some SACs, and are protedted by national and international legislation, so it is ILLEGAL to plant any non-native species here for very good reason..

:)

where they have been planted, the owners and authorites are generally aware of the presence, more so than the planters might think- who might only visit one a year or so -they are there every day! In some cases they know the identity of the planters, and detailed history of planting attempts, and are monitoring the plants and/or taking action to remove.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and John I personally would not release any details because I cannot condone the promotion of this practice, and telling people about sites does encourage visits...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen,

Re your last posting. I can understand where you are coming from and don't want to fall out over this.

You have firmly nailed your colours to the mast, regarding how you view this issue and I can understand your reasoning.

(takes deep breath)

However......

No doubt you (and those others in the know) have visited these sites and seen them for yourselves. I don't think that its unreasonable to assume that in the majority of cases the individuals in the know have found out because they were told themselves.

What this seems to boil down to is " its ok for us to know and visit, but not for you", which ,unfortunately takes the appearence of arrogant presumption (even tho' I know its not meant that way!).

BTW. The irony of my own request in trying to obtain this info, also taking the appearence of arrogant presumption (that the info WILL be supplied) is not lost on me! LOL!

In the majority of cases the introduction of an alien species is wrong, and as you detail, the introduction of Sarr Purp to the bogs of Ireland appears to have a detrimental effect, but what about the ecosystem in the Lakes (I'm not sure whether its bog ,damp fields or whatever)?

Even if I knew the exact location I may not be able to visit because the plants may be on private property (and I would have to obtain the owners permission, which could be denied anyway).

To take the introduction argument to its extreme are we now going to look at the removal of Rabbits (intr. by the Romans?) and Little Owls (Intr. 200 years ago by estate owners?) or are these species now regarded as being part of the natural ecosystem?

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps you are not considering the possibility that some people who know such locations are professionally involved in not publicising them, and know them as professional priviledge, rather than just making it a personal clique-secret.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying that though John I think that I am right in saying that all grey squirrlels have a death sentence because of being an introduced species....I think it does also mean that any alien species colonising the british isles which has arrived through human means should be entirely wiped out...problem being those who wish for a balanced ecology may splinter into the group wishing to save introduced species......

As much as I would love to see other CP's in the wild I think it would be a case of stumbling upon them...and in such cases informing relevant authorities to come and take them out....

I dont know...I may have to drink on this one...then probably forget what I was doing!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps you are not considering the possibility that some people who know such locations are professionally involved in not publicising them, and know them as professional priviledge, rather than just making it a personal clique-secret.

quite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ste,Ste and Rob,

I think I know what Stephen does and apologise for being a pain in the rear area (especially when its publically difficult to discuss this).

What has been burning me is more the clique-secret side of it.

I think tht the other Ste's coment about having a drink and forgetting about it is probably the best course of action in this instance!!!

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Informing the whereabouts I suppose might condone the planting of non-native species and does create a bit of publicity, albeit only on an internet forum. Just because we're all into the same hobby, each of us doesn't know every single of the other 1222 members here.

I don't think that many people at all do actually know the precise Lakes location and I doubt they get together in the dead of night to discuss it! Personally I've been told the kind of location one of the sites is in, nothing more, and the person who planted it, although I have no reason to believe or disbelieve this information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell ya what John I will pop up and we can drown our sorrows in fermented purpurea goo!!! :evil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm missing something deeply important here, but Sarracenia purpurea ain't exactly an endangered species - hands up any Sarra growers who don't have one form or another?! Is the world of CP growing going to collapse because some introduced plants are removed - I rather think not. Of course I would only condone responsible removal by parties mindful of the fragility of the local habitat, as opposed to people digging them up for a quick buck.

As nice as it is to see plants growing in the wild, is it really any different (at least in the case of an introduced species), to see that plant thriving in a garden? Several pictures on this forum show very healthy Purp's in people's bog gardens. So why bother planting them in the wild - conservation? Hardly! Can anyone explain?

Ideally the plants would be removed from the wild, and replanted in collections which could be enjoyed by the many, without risking any harm to the environment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can help you out on the healthy purps, the bogs and pictures of wild ones... no where in europe though, in the states.

(click)

th_fcb89236.jpg

S. Purpurea in the Great Lakes Region of the US.

th_3ae84f14.jpg

th_cfddf06b.jpg

Last years growth (first one is my first one i bought, the second one is my favorite looking one! it was bought online to) Could it be the Darker pitchers? Probably!

Removle of alein plants is best in the fact that people will settle down about a weed that occours naturaly (now if it was an endagerd weed, we wouldnt call it a weed it would be called a plant none the less but it would be a bigger deal i can understand) and how its being choked out by alien plants. LOL one of the reasons Sarrs are lossing natural habbitat is loss of natural fire to clear other brush from the area...

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOOOOOOOOOO

:lol: people who do that just... anger me beyond extent.. any ways notice the lack of pigment? those are grown in Full sun, i am blocking it out due to the time of day, and my positioning on the walk.

I proudly payed for them, first one was a Hardware store Save (lowes first one ever owned!! :D) And the second was a online buy from a trustworthy site.

and it doesnt help the way i worded it for you to asume that does it ? :)

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not native to the area you speak of, but I am from a place where people think it's okay to dump their offcast plants anywhere they please.

Nearby there is an overgrown, wild, lot full of roses daffodills, grape hyacinths, cannas, etc. These are not "native" plants and the lot has not been a home in recent memory. Someone put these plants there and took off.

I have removed every plant I spot from this location because they strangle out the Native Range Grass... and because Grape Hyacinth spreads like a plague.

In my opinion there is no harm in -serious- hobbyists removing these plants (for personal uses, or to personally destroy them) as long as they also notify the athourities where they find them.

Of course... that leaves the problem of deciding who is "serious"... which I think is partly the case with this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this