Marcus B
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Posts posted by Marcus B
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On 20/11/2016 at 11:24 AM, Bidde said:
I have more than one Adrian Slacks also. They are clones off course but there exist different adrian slack clones. I think its the same like Philmann clones.
And few others named after people that supplied them.
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9 hours ago, Alexis said:
In reality, a clone is just used as another word for individual when it comes to CPs.
The term clone should not be just another word for an individual. It should be only applied as is appropriate, as the article correctly states, or confusion reigns. Plants grown from seeds are not clones. They are genetically individuals, and not copies of each other.
Plants propagated vegetatively are then clones of a seed grown plant. As Naoki has put it, for those of us trained in biology, "clone" has a defined meaning.
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15 hours ago, dimitar said:
Interesting. Which clones are they?
I know that he has plants that he got from Phil Mann, as well as the plants that he got from John Hummer (and if I remember correctly, a few other well known growers), and it is my understanding that he has also, like many of us, has grown plants from seed and selected the best as stock plants. My understanding is that, apart from a few, he does not sell them as named clones, he merely vegetatively propagates his stock plants and sells most simply labelled as typicals.
I hope that clarifies things for you.
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On 18/08/2016 at 3:13 AM, Pascal Kulms said:
Who is Charles brewer ? Does He sell his clones ?
Charles Brewer was one of the main sellers of Cephs in the USA, having learnt a lot about growing them from John Hammer. He sells a range plants obtained from other well known growers as well as his own selected clones. He is a member of this forum, but does not post very often. I am not sure how many plants he sells these days, but years ago his plan was to have a least a 1000 stock plants to produce sales plants from. I believe that he at least got close to that number.
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Looks pretty ordinary to me. Getting Cephs to look reddish is not that difficult, given the right conditions. Getting them to stay red can be another matter, as they will vary with the seasons. Even if they have the idea set up to maintain those conditions, when you grow it under your conditions it may be green, or go darker still.
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This is valuable information. As can be seen in these pictures, certain conditions need to be met in order to achieve colouration.
In my observations, if conditions are not met that would result in good colouration of any other clone, then the same is true of the so called dark clones. I think at best the dark clones have an ability to become darker in the same conditions that would give good colouration to any other clone but as can be seen here, clones that are not typically considered to be dark have the ability to take on good colouration with the right conditions.
In my opinion, if a grower is unable to achieve colouration in normal clones then the same would be true with the dark clones. I think at best the dark clones have an ability to become darker in the same conditions that would give good colouration to any other clone.
I agree, I think that is the best way to look at the potential of darker clones. Incidentally, when looking over my plants recently I picked out a small plant that was the darkest in my collection and found it was one of my EB x EB seedlings.
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Hi quick question...
If I am lucky enough to have that happen ;) do you place the rhizome across the pot or top to bottom? Buried of course :)
Thanks,
James
Usually buried with the growth point at the surface, but for a long one you can cut it up and put the bits without the growth point flat under the surface so they send out side shoots. I have just placed whole cuttings flat and got multiple growth points so it is not vital one way or the other, but upwards is better that downward.
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Hi people.
I grew this Ceph back in the early 2000s. I'm not sure of where I originally sourced it from, but I had it for several years.
It was big. And I mean BIG! It had great colouration and I was lucky enough to win the Grand Champion plant with it at the VCPS Annual Show.
I didn't name it "Edwards Giant" and I have no idea who did.
Cheers, Paul.
Yes, your plant put my "Giant" into second place in the Cephs that year, even though it can produce bigger pitchers. Good to see you back. As Sean said, it is Guy who re-named your plant. My piece of your clone is just tagged with your name. Great colouration and growth rate from this clone, no matter which name it goes by.
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It is a rhizome, rather than a root. Trying growing Cephs in a basket pot and you are likely to have it happen fairly often, as I used to. Cutting them off and potting them up is one way to take rhizome cuttings.
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He was feeding to his birds (quails either Odontophoridae or Coturnix ) these worms. Pinheads is the smallest size of crickets, just hatched their head is the size of a pinhead.
Excalfactoria actually. They are a lot smaller than our Coturnix species, but well guessed. In fact they are actually the smallest species of fowl (Pheasant family).
Here we get House Crickets in four sizes pinhead (newly hatched), small, medium and large. I prefer pinheads for Cephs as they are the size of small ants which are a natural prey item for Cephs.
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Thanks Marcus,
Yes, I had ordered the Ceph already potted. So do you think that the traps will recover and become upright? I am not 100% certain about proper feeding however. I have a Nepenthes x 'Rebecca Soper' that I purchased from California Carnivores and they told me when I received the plant to add a little distilled water to each trap and drop in one Osmocote fertilizer pellet into each pitcher, see:(http://www.californiacarnivores.com/osmocotefertilizerpellets.aspx). The bag of Osmocote pellets is labeled to be used for both Nepenthes AND Cephalotus. I have also fed the Nep. small live meal mealworms and it is growing quite well with good coloration. Peter D'Amato, the owner of California Carnivores, also told me to spray all my CPs with a diluted concentration of the seaweed based fertilizer Maxsea (16-16-16) once or twice a month. Your comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I most certainly don't want to kill this $160 CP!
Thanks, Richard
Greetings Richard, firstly definately do not feed Cephs mealworms. I have done that in the past as I keep them feeding quails and they are great for Neps. Unless you use the very tiny ones you can over do the feeding. If you want to try the Osmocote, try a small pellet in the largest trap on the plant, but only one pellet in one trap. Peter has had plenty of experience at this, but I suggest that you take things carefully. The fertilizer should help the Ceph recover quicker from the shock of the move,but you don't want to over do it. Make sure you make the spray dilute. For what I use I dilute it 1:10 of the recommended dilution for other plants. Check with Peter what he recommends for the fertilizer he has referred you to.
Basically although to a point you can feed Cephs like Neps, you need to be aware that it is better to keep Cephs in drier air, while Neps need humidity. Neps are bigger and can handle larger meals, while Cephs naturally catch small crawling arthropods. Large insects will cause the traps to rot out, so if you wish to feed them live prey then use something like pinhead or small House Crickets (Chinese/Japanese Crickets).
Thanks Marcus,
Yes, I had ordered the Ceph already potted. So do you think that the traps will recover and become upright? I am not 100% certain about proper feeding however. I have a Nepenthes x 'Rebecca Soper' that I purchased from California Carnivores and they told me when I received the plant to add a little distilled water to each trap and drop in one Osmocote fertilizer pellet into each pitcher, see:(http://www.californiacarnivores.com/osmocotefertilizerpellets.aspx). The bag of Osmocote pellets is labeled to be used for both Nepenthes AND Cephalotus. I have also fed the Nep. small live meal mealworms and it is growing quite well with good coloration. Peter D'Amato, the owner of California Carnivores, also told me to spray all my CPs with a diluted concentration of the seaweed based fertilizer Maxsea (16-16-16) once or twice a month. Your comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I most certainly don't want to kill this $160 CP!
Thanks, Richard
Greetings Richard, firstly definately do not feed Cephs mealworms. I have done that in the past as I keep them feeding quails and they are great for Neps. Unless you use the very tiny ones you can over do the feeding. If you want to try the Osmocote, try a small pellet in the largest trap on the plant, but only one pellet in one trap. Peter has had plenty of experience at this, but I suggest that you take things carefully. The fertilizer should help the Ceph recover quicker from the shock of the move,but you don't want to over do it. Make sure you make the spray dilute. For what I use I dilute it 1:10 of the recommended dilution for other plants. Check with Peter what he recommends for the fertilizer he has referred you to.
Basically although to a point you can feed Cephs like Neps, you need to be aware that it is better to keep Cephs in drier air, while Neps need humidity. Neps are bigger and can handle larger meals, while Cephs naturally catch small crawling arthropods. Large insects will cause the traps to rot out, so if you wish to feed them live prey then use something like pinhead or small House Crickets (Chinese/Japanese Crickets).
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Best thing that you can do for the traps is to reposition them and add a little water to them. Frequently when transplanted Cephs lose the bigger/older pitchers. If it came in the pot they may recover. The change in environment may still be enough to cause it to die back before it puts out new growth.
Care for Cephs is pretty much the same not matter what label they have. How are you intending to feed it? Putting food into the traps can cause them to die off if it is over done. Small amounts work well, as do dilute appropriate fertilizers when sprayed over the leaves.
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Great photos! This would seem to support the notion of the temperature variation being important in colour production, but it not necessarily needing to be as great as previously suggested.
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From my experience and the comments of others, the best colouration comes not just due to being cold and getting direct sunlight, but due a good variation in temperaure from night to day. I have seen quotes of the variation needing to be a least 10oC for good colour. This is is best seen here when there are frosts followed by sunny days, but I have also seen plants colour up well when there was a similar variation between night and day without it being quite so cold, provided they have good sun exposure. So it may not be a matter of not being cold enough, but rather it not being warm enough in the day after a cold night. The question I suppose is, how cold does it need to be for this to be effective?
Then again, I have plants that just ignore all this and either refuse to colour up, or colour up regardless of the conditions, even without seeming to get the direct sun needed. Evidently they still get enough light to respond.
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Another aspect of this is that we hear from people chasing a "named clone" that is not a named plant at all, such as the "Phil Mann clone". This is a product of what I referred to earlier. Phil Mann sold a lot of plants that came from various parent plants. People, such as myself, on buying a plant from Phil labelled it with his name. If we put up a photo of it, it gets labelled as "Phil Mann". Someone sees that and asks to obtain the "Phil Mann clone". However, Phil sent out matterial from number of plants, not just one. I had three plants that I got from Phil. The cuttings are labelled so I know which plant they came from. My original plants may or may not have been from the one parent plant, but basically they are all just typical/standard/normal Cephs even though they showed variation. So we could supply the asker with a plant which could be traced back to Phil, but be from totally different stock to the one that they saw or read about.
I also know of one plant that was broken up and distributed under the name of the grower who did very well with it. One recipent apparently had good success with the piece he had and it produced large pitchers, so he started to distrubute it as a giant tagged with part of the name of the former grower. Having an interest in the larger growing forms of Cephs I as looking it getting some only to find out that it was from the same stock that I already had. Its best pitcher size is somewhat smaller than my "Giant" at its best, but it often looked better at the time of our shows, so my "Giant" was runner up to this more colourful plant when they were together, before the grower stopped showing it.
Text fails to carry people's tone and so their intent can be misunderstood. It is also easy to miss things and others can assume knowledge that is not there. Added to this when you repeatedly deal with the same issue it is easy to forget that this is all new to the person asking. I have had to learn that short answers, although they save time, can often fail to convey the necessary information need to establish good communication. At times I have given quick answers that on later reading I find actually convey something, or have a tone, that is unintended.
Another forum that I am part of deals with freshwater turtles. They have a document that they refer newbies to when they have FAQs. May be we need to have something like that which includes this issue, rather than just a growing guide for Cepsh in the FAQs. That way we can just refer newbies to it to read before engagaing in further discussions. Just a thought.
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Thanks a lot Marcus. This does help to clarify the situation. However, I don't appreciate being treated like an idiot by others. I did some research. I found a reputable CP (+Cephalotus follicularis) supplier: http://www.carnivorousplantnursery.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?SID=1445218293.20336&page=category.html&category=13. I spoke with Michael, the owner, and he treated me with respect, and suggested that I visit his greenhouse to pick out the one that I like best. I intend to do so within the coming week.
What is coming out in the comments appears to be the frustration that this issue has come up again and looks like it won't go away. Many people who are new to growing Cephs get drawn to the idea that if they pay a lot of money for a plant with a name then they will have something special and then they get disappointed.
Giants such as the ones listed on Michael's site have a tendency to produce large than "typical" sized pitchers more readily than "Typical" Cephs. However, given the right conditions, "Typical" plants can also produce large pitchers, hence the argument about whether such a distinction is valid. From my own experience, such a distinction does have merit, but it seems that too many plants have been sold as being something that they are not and so confusion reigns.
There are lot of other variations that get named which appear to be products of a particular grower's set up and therefore not something that is genetic. It is this combination of debatable issues, and the fact that some people seem to take advantage of it, which is what many get worked up about. It gets too easy to forget how confusing this can be to those who just want to start growing something a bit unusual.
Have fun picking out your new plant, but just be prepared for it to do things you don't expect, including dying back for awhile, but give it time to settle in and in a few years you may have a plant that you are proud to show off. If Michael grows them himself rather than just on selling plants, then talk to him about the conditions he keeps them in and get his suggestions for how to accommodate the plant in your set up, but be ready to enjoy your Ceph even if it does not do what you hope for.
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I have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about!!!!! All I was looking for was a real specific variety NAME that I could look up.
Cephs can seem quite variable, so when you are picking plants you may find yourself choosing between plants that show different characteristics and pick one that you like best. The problem with that is, that plants that can be cuttings from the same parent plant, can show different characteristics, when they are genetically all the same. Worst still, you take your prize home and expect it to continue to show that preferred characteristic, such as dark colour, and the new pitchers don't do so. Cephs will grow differently under different conditions, and it can be small things that make the difference, even if left in the one spot they can vary from year to year. For this reason there is a lot of contention about naming varieties of Cephs, because many of them mean very little other than helping to trace where the plant came from, but even that has become an issue in itself.
Some plants that have been named for their previous supplier, by those who sell them on, get treated as though they are something special when they are just named as a way of distinguishing different stock, and this has given rise to people wanting a particular named plant while not realising it is not that different to any other commonly available Ceph. This chasing of names has artificially inflated the selling price of many plants which are not worthy of the increased cost. We could put up photos different plants that will look similar even if grown under different conditions, or photos of the same plant under different conditions that may, or may not, show differences, as well as photos of the same plant, under the same basic conditions that show different characteristics one year from the next.
Basically what we are saying is, don't look for a variety name, as it is no guarantee that you will get a plant that will display the characteristic that you are looking for, but rather it is more likely that you will pay more than you ought. Cephs can be difficult to get growing well, so you are better off getting a Typical/normal/standard Ceph (one without a variety name) and learning how to grow that well. If in future, you have had good success with Cephs, then it may be worth looking at getting a named plant, for the purpose of trying to increase the genetic variety in your collection, which is most useful if you want to produce your own seed. A simpler way is to buy plants grown from seed, especially if from different growers, as then you will have your own genetically unique plants (even if the genetic difference is minor).
The issue of how much real genetic variation there is in Cephs and whether it actually has much impact in the appearance of the plant is a much debated issue and that is what you have walked into. This is why the responses seem confusing so please don't take it personally. Fred (I think) is just trying to save you money and protect you from disappointment of buying a plant based on an appearance that it may not display under your conditions.
Hopefully that helps to clear things up for you.
BTW, In case it is not obvious, Dimitar was trying to be funny in referring you to a contentious "variety".
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So now I am very confused. I just wanted a nice unusual CP to add to my 3 plant CP collection for bright windowsill growing under a 6500 Kelvin plant grow light.
Then, as Fred says, you are better off just getting a typical Ceph and seeing how you go growing that first before trying to grow a fussier plant, especially if you want it to colour up.
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General rule aside, I have had "Giant" producing large pitchers in full light that have turned a lovely dark colour during autumn (cold nights, warm days) and seen a plant, that I had sold, do even better in a controlled set up, so it is possible to get large (approximately 60 mm, excluding lid height, so base to rim top) dark coloured pitchers. It is just not easy to do and I have not found them to be consistently large (just a bit bigger than normal) in full light.
So the general rule does have exceptions.
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The grower is probably the best person to ask. As he is on this forum he may answer your question himself.
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Hi Marcus sorry but I am not starting yet another heated discussion about where it was originally sourced from etc etc as it tends to get out of hand, sorry (see a recent post on the sales area)
I only wanted to show you all how well this little one was doing, which incidentally it still hasn't opened and is swelling nicely.
As far as I'm concerned its labelled as "Giant" and it does seem to be getting bigger but I don't buy them for that, yes it would be nice to have cultivar this, cultivar that but I don't buy them for that.
I buy them because I like them.
And they are at a price I am willing to pay.
Don't meant to offend.
James
That is okay. I was just curious to see if was possibly from seed of my plant, which is one of the giants with a mysterious origin, supposedly link to Hummers Giant, but no-one can prove it. I received it labelled as "Giant" and I refuse to change the label due to any real proof of its origin. It gets quite good sized pitchers, especially under better conditions that what I can provide it with.
I labelled the seed as "Giant x ?" as I was not certain that they were self fertilised. My seed raised plants are just getting to a good size. I lost the parent plant last year but I have rhizome and leaf cuttings along with seedlings.
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It's labelled as "Giant form" so it does seem to be living up to its name so far.
Even if it doesn't get huge I'm quite happy with it as it is to be honest
James
Where was it sourced from? Did you get it as plant or as seed. I am curious because I know most of the seed from my "Giant" that I made available to VCPS went to a European buyer.
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Thanks Marcus.
For info, what fertiliser do you use? I'm wary of using something that will damage the plants, and am looking for one I can use for all my carnivorous plants.
Cheers
I use Miracle-Gro for Natives (Australian) and Acid loving plants (Azaleas and Camellias) at a tenth of the recommended concentration. Unfortunately it seems that they have stop making it, so you would need to source something similar. However, it is not necessary. Another alternative is to feed the pitchers using small flies, or pin-head crickets. If the insects are too big, the pitchers tend to rot, so care must be taken. I used to use native royal ants, but I lost too many pitchers. The small Argentine ants may be a better alternative, and then at least you are using a pest species.
For general use on carnivorous plants you are probably better off using coffee grounds, but I don't know if it is as effective or as safe for Cepsh as it is for Sarras and Neps.
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Guys, originally it was in my heated greenhouse with my Nepenthes, where it would get misted daily. It put out adult leaves, but these quickly died back, which I think was due to the heat being a bit much for it - Heliamphoras and Sarras grow in there too, though so it isn't that hot. Anyway, I also wondered whether it was getting too much water.
As a result, I have put it outside with most of my sarras and my VFT's, where it gets sun in the morning, and is watered daily but does not sit in a tray of water. Daytime temperatures are between 15 and 25 degrees, nightime as low as 10. Despite this, it continues to struggle. It is watered only with rainwater, for info. All my other plants are flourishing, it's only the poor little Ceph that's looking sick, so any suggestions would be welcome.
Les
Hi Les,
It should do fine if outside under cover. Our current weather has not be kind to Cephs due to sudden changes between fairly warm and cold spells. If your plant has been too wet over winter it may need to dry out a little. Just keep it moist and see if it responds. Most of my plants have also been a bit slow to grow properly this year, although my seedlings are doing well. When it warms up you can keep it in a tray of water, but just change the water occasionally and give it regular time of not standing in water.
I keep mine in an open hot house at this time of year, which allows me to control the amount of water they get and protects them from the wind. If we get a cold snap I close it up. At this time of year a little dilute fertiliser also helps if sprayed on the leaves.
CMB DD-C002
in Cephalotus
Posted
On the topic of CMB plants, does anyone else find that their plants tend to set seed more readily than other Cephs? I have a number of plants in flower, but I have not hand pollinated them this year, but the CMB plants have heaps of flowers clustered together, more tightly than the other plants, and most of the flowers appear to have set seed.
They normally set seed well, but I have normally used a brush to pollinate them. Other plants along side them, and even having their flower stems touching the CMB ones have few seeds setting on them.