Phil Green

Carl - my replies have been more to the question, rather than directly to you. So that other who might ask the question, but don't have your knowledge, might understand more. But in relation to this, I'd say that is also down to the individual clone. Some might be more inclined to show colour under less than 'perfect' conditions and so 'appear' to be dark clones, but show no difference when grown with others under 'perfect' conditions. Whilst another may seem ordinary under less than perfect conditions and show their true potential only under 'perfect' conditions. One will be best for some people, whilst the other one is for different people. The variables of Genetics and their interactions with climate and soils, is all part of the JOY and Frustration of growing plants. AGREED!

Yes an NO. Yes certain conditions will bring out either the colour or the size of any particular Ceph. But genetics determines whether a particular clone is more or less predisposed to produce larger pitchers than 'normal' or darker/redder pitchers than normal. So, if just one of your plants is grown in high light levels, it will have darker pitchers than the others. A plant at the end of winter, may have darker pitchers when compared to one in summer. A plant grown in shade, may have larger pitchers when compared to others grown in full sun. But. Plants which are genetically darker, will be darker than the 'normal' Cephs when grown under the same conditions and compared at the same time of year. Same with clones which are genetically larger. So yes, growing conditions plays it's part. But so does genetics.

If it was known certain conditions where 'needed' to bring out the described characteristics, then to me this would suggest the plant wasn't being grown under 'standard' conditions. I don't believe describing your growing conditions is required, but there is no reason that they can't be mentioned. And if 'unusual' perhaps should be mentioned. For example, if you grow your dark coloured Heli under 3000w of LED light at 2inchs away - it might be worth mentioning that this could be the cause of the exceptional colour achieved by your clone.

For me there isn't any. One has just been named 'officially' the other hasn't. But keeping thing official does help to keep some 'order' to things. So avoiding different people giving different plants the same 'nick name'. At least with the cultivar system, you can (should be able to) check if a name has been used before naming yours. Whereas there is no way of knowing if someone is privately using the same name for their plant. But as for 'quality', a named clone can be just as Good/Bad as a cultivar.

But is it fair to blame a cultivar or the rules, for peoples misunderstandings or lack of knowledge. If I buy a plant that requires Full Sun and it dies because I grew it under my apple tree, I blame myself for not reading up about it first - not the cultivar register for naming it 'Apple Blossom'. A name is just a name. I don't expect VFT 'Alien' to actually come from another planet and bite my head off when I'm not looking. Yes, it is well known I DO dislike names which imply something of a plant which may not be true and think people should try and avoid emotive names just to grab attention. But even so, a name is just a name, whether I like it or not. Another problem is the time it would take to bring about new cultivars, if they HAD to be tested for several years by other growers as well. Most people will have grown a plant for several years before they even think about it being special and worthy of cultivar status (excluding those who just find a TC mutation in a garden centre and register it the next year). To then have to multiply that and send it to other growers around the world (how else can it be considered 'truly tested', if not grown in other countries), could take decades and for us older growers might be impossible. Even then, someone is always going to pop up and say "but it doesn't hold it's features under MY conditions". Also, for many people registering cultivars, they are going to want to recoup some of their costs from selling the cultivar when it is first released. But if it is already spread around the world in multiple collections, how do you stop those people selling the plant and making a profit from your hard work. Or even selling it prior to you registering it? For big businesses this is possible, but not really for the private grower. For example. I've a S. Flava ornata which I plan to register. I acquired it as a mature seed grown plant back in 2007. Under my conditions it stays an ornata, but would it under other sunnier conditions? To test this, I sent a plant a few years ago, to the person in the UK who seems most adept at turning flava ornata into a 'red tube' - Aidan. So far it is staying an ornata under his conditions as well. I'm still in two minds whether to give it another years trail or not. But there is no way I'm going to send it to yet more grower in Europe and maybe the USA, just to test this in even more conditions. No matter how rigorous your testing, there will always be 'more you could have done'. As has been said many times. The real test of any cultivar is TIME. Those that are worthy will continue to be grown, those that aren't will disappear. But if people continue to aquire worthless plants just because of a name, they have no one to blame but themselves, they should do some homework first.

For what it's worth, here's my two pennies worth. I agree that any cultivar should be proved to be 'stable'. But for me, that means grown for several years by the person intending to register the plant, to 'prove' that the described feature is regular or normal and not a freak occurrence. So DON'T register a plant as 'Giant' just because it once produced an exceptionally large pitcher. Don't label it as Dark, just because it once produced an exceptionally dark pitcher. But, if under 'your' conditions (assuming you aren't knowingly doing something unusual, or otherwise to cause this difference), this trait repeats itself regularly, then fine, register it if you are so inclined. As we all know, no two peoples growing conditions and soil mixes are exactly the same and any small change 'can' make a difference. So it should come as no surprise if some feature of the plant, changes in 'your' conditions. For me, I don't seem able to grow my Sarra's to the same size I see in other collections. But I'm not about to complain about it. If you are able to have someone else 'test' the plants stability, then that is obviously better. But it hasn't been a requirement in the past, so why should it now. Although, if the person hasn't tested the plant with other grower - then feel free to wonder why.

Yeh ICPS seems to have dropped the ball on cultivars. So much on their web site is out of date - Which is not very good (watered down what I actually think ) for the official authority dealing with them. Your best bet is actually Bobs photo finder. He does keep this as up to date as possible and lists which are cultivars and which just 'nick names'. And if you do ever spot any errors, just drop him a line and he fixes them almost instantly.

Bill, could it just be that your internet was down for those moments. Or just that something failed to start up properly. I had the same issue this morning. I switched and but got nothing from email or internet. I switched it off and on again at the mains and everything was then fine.

And for anyone who would like to help support this amazing project, which is helping to directly save wild Nep species in situ (in their wild habitats) - along with all the other non-Nep species which co-exist along with them. IT IS REALLY EASY. Just visit this link and make a donation via paypal - no amount is too small. Every little helps. http://www.savenepenthes.org/

Nice plant though. Tell us who the seller was, so that at least people know who to be warned of.

Paul - that isn't actually correct, although a common misconception - all that growth makes it look like the soils 'must be' nutrient rich. Rainforest soils (and many forests) are actually nutrient poor, most of the nutrients are locked up in the living tissues of the plants and animals which live there. It is when these die, that the nutrients are released but quickly taken up by the other plants to grow. That is why 'slash and burn' farming has to keep moving on. The nutrients released only feed crops for a few years, before being depleted. I use just regular Baby Bio (at about half strength) when feeding my CP's, sometimes as a foliar feed, often directly into the pitchers. I also just pop slow release pellets into pitchers (Neps, Heli, Ceph, Sarra).

Glad you like 'em guys No. 1 is a plant I'm particularly keen on. The green/yellow and white ones I'm also keeping a close eye on and struggling to decide which are the real keepers, or possibly which ones to cross to produce something even better ada - I've quite a few of those green/yellowish and white plants, all with subtle variation. As well as several from a different cross not having rugelii and so no red in the throat. If we're gonna be in the same place, I'll have to bring some along to show ya. But if you are interested, let me know what you really like - I don't have any divisions yet, but I will at some point and I may even have others closer to what you like.

As this forum now seems to be allowing me to post pic's - even though I'm doing exactly the same as I was at the weekend when it wouldn't allow me to show you these pic's!! I thought I'd show a few of my home produce. Still quite young, but starting to show their potential. Plant 1 Plant 2 Plant 3 This one is nicely 'furry' Plant 4 Plant 5 Plant 6 Plant 7 Plant 8 Plant 9 Plant 10 Plant 11 And finally, a bunch of seed grown flava var. rugelii looking nicely yellow. Believe it or not, plants 2 - 10 are all the same cross. Yep those green/yellowish and white plants have the same parents as the red ones! These are just a few of around 200 seedlings, more like these ones and variations of them. Hope you like 'em half as much as I do.