RL7836
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I recently received a number of these plants in a trade. The original grower raised these from seed received from the ICPS seedbank labelled as D. petiolaris. The petioles on these plants look much wider than on my other D. petiolaris.
Based on Bob Z's photofinder, these plants appear similar to D. petiolaris, D. dilatato-petiolaris &/or D. fulva.
Based on comments in the recent thread on D. petiolaris 'all red' - it would seem that these plants are not D. petiolaris and are probably D. dilatato-petiolaris.
The plant on the right looks ragged because a 2nd growth point has emerged on the back side and is sending up numerous smaller leaves. I suspect that none of the plants are full size yet as they are recovering from the trauma suffered in shipping and pesticide dunking (all original leaves were cutback and this is the regrowth).
What does everyone think - what species is this?
Thanks for help & input.
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Thanks for all the kind comments.
I really posted because I want to see more people growing this group of plants and hear how others grow them. They're an amazing complex and I've got a lot more to learn...
Spectacular plants, Ron. What conditions do you give them?Hi Greg - the conditions are really a work-in-progress. The tank pictured has the following:
- external heating which maintains temps from roughly 88-92*F
- glass covering 80% of the tank top
- lighting is via a 35 watt power compact fluorescent with a parabolic mirror reflector (www.ahsupply.com) (pricey but bright) These lights were a recommendation from the aquatic gardening association folks. This tank also receives a few hours of sun in the AM (east-facing window).
- I pour a thin film of water over the bottom of the tank in the evening - usually nightly but sometimes I skip a night or 2. The pots soak up their water from this. The water is typically all gone in the morning - leaving the plants with more of an arid environment during the day. At 1st I was very skeptical but the plants thrived - seemingly more than in an ultra-humid tank. Another benefit: the less humid daytime environment also seems to facilitate pollen transfer when the plants are blooming.
I understand others (like petiolarissean) have success with open-top tanks. So far, I haven't been able to acclimate the glabrous species to those conditions. The other woolies (hairier ones) thrive like that but so far - not these guys (although I keep experimenting).
Anyone have any thoughts on the 2 D. kenneallyi forms - how one always puts out the same size arms and the other never does? Are they usually this variable? They also seem to have different shades of red - even growing side-by-side. Which one is the more 'normal' of the species?
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Seemed very quiet around here lately - here's some pics of a few of my non-woolie woolies...
First up is a D. kenneallyi. This is a recent photo of the same plant that I posted in the sundew forum in June. http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10166
Notice the even growth habit of the leaves.
Another D. kenneallyi for comparison. Very different from the 1st... I suspect that it's from another location but I don't have that info for either plant
. The folded trap at approx 6:35 had a pulverized meal of bloodworms the night before the photo was snapped - really folded up around them :-& 
This is a hybrid that petiolarissean created. He called it D. 'Ladle'. It turns out that he named 2 plants D. 'Ladle' - this is the 1st one. It is supposed to be a D. falconeri x D. paradoxa. The lighter-colored protrusion in the center of the plant is its 3rd flower stalk in the last few months.
To get some perspective, here's a top-down view of the tank where these plants and some other glabrous woolies are growing. Bottom right corner is a group of D. sessilifolia keeping the others company. On the left side are some plants in humidity domes (also called plastic cups) that I recently received. There were bugs crawling all over them when I got them so they got a soak in a pesticide solution. The domes are used to acclimate them to their new conditions.
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Simply get the 2 flowers and rub them together several times while they are open. You may not get a huge amount of seed but you should at least get a little.
I've read this basic advice in several places on both forums. In addition, a few growers also recommended it as the procedure to use. When my D. paradoxa plants started to flower, I rubbed the 2 flowers together quite vigorously - somewhat off center so the stigma & anthers somewhat matched up - every day - or at least every day that 2 flowers were open....
After the seed pods matured, I dissected over 20 of them and managed to get 5 seeds - and they all came from the same capsule. This level of seed production didn't remotely justify the time I put into the process.
After some reflection, I decided to try a somewhat more savage approach
. Using very thin tweezers, I grasped a filament about mid-length and gently ripped it off the flower. I then dabbed the anther on the end of the filament to the stigma of the other open flower. Then I reversed the process and pollinated the other flower. Typically I used 2 - 4 stamens for each flower. One of my plants has a bright yellow pollen which makes it easy to see when the stigma has been well coated.When the seed pods were ripe, I again ripped them apart, and this time, I was rewarded with 20-30 seeds per pod (typically).
While this process takes a bit more time, for me, the increase in seed production has now justified the effort.
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and a link to a typical D. petiolaris
http://www2.odn.ne.jp/~chr79360/plant%20gu.../prtiolaris.jpg
Hi Sean,
The plant in this photo appears to have quite 'hairy' leaves. How would this be distinguished from a D. paradoxa (esp. one that isn't strongly stem-forming)?
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Hi Homer,
Nice plants! So you've moved the D. ordensis to a new home. What are the conditions there?
In the middle photo, around the D. falconeri (nice plant btw), what are the plants at 1:00 and 8:30?
Have you had any luck propagating any of your woolies?
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Hi Ron, hope your plants are doing great! My smooth varieties are not looking the best- Do you have any suggestions for a terrarium set up for just the smooth varieties? Soil,temp,humidity,watering technique?
I really hate to lose a plant-with your help I will change my set up.
Thanks, Chuck
Hi Chuck,
With so many people and so many years of growing experience on this list, I'm one of the last to ask for info...
Hopefully people will chime in...At the time this photo was taken, I was maintaining temps from 92-96*F and had the pots sitting constantly in water under strong lighting (compact fluorescent w/ mirror reflector). The lighting was fairly new at the time and you can see that the plant's younger leaves were a darker red. They were growing in a 10 gallon aquarium with glass over the top and small openings for ventilation at both ends (approx 1/2").
Based on the D. lanata observations and recommendations from other growers, I started to let the water on the tank bottom go dry between waterings. While I expected the plants to wither, they have not - so far - as long as the potting media retains some moisture. The plants that were growing well are still growing well and the D. lanata has resumed its previous growth. I'm currently using a 50:50 sand peat mix but it seems that most growers recommend add'l sand or perlite to that.
To accomodate new plants, I'm planning to add some add'l tanks. With them, I'll probably play around somewhat with the growing conditions - leaning towards more arid conditions for the pubescent species (D. lanata, D. ordensis, etc)
Overall, I continue to view this as a work-in-progress for me and look forward to hearing about as much information from other growers as possible - both from the what works well category as well as the stuff that didn't work. I keep reading accounts from people who have had success growing in very humid conditions (some constantly sitting in water) to those who try to let it dry out between waterings. I also hear about the people who grew them well for several years and then had a plant suddenly die.
Then there's also dormancy....
Good luck and keep sharing your experiences.
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Watch out - by next year that pot is going to look like Forbes' post (Greetings from Australia - (Albion Bog)) :elephant:
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I'm from New Jersey, USA
- known for the Garden State Parkway (what exit?)
- the Pine Barrens (S. purpurea, D. filiformis....)
- being perpetually in the shadow of New York City (both the NY Giants & NY Jets play home games in NJ)
- charging tolls for people leaving the state (but not entering - we'll let you in for free but you gotta pay to get out)
- the Jersey Shore (beaches, Bruce Springsteen...)
- oil refineries, traffic jams and a tremendous diversity of wildlife & plants (if you know where to look...)
I'm not close to any of the above (except the wildlife & plants) ~ 35 miles west of NYC (15 minutes from PA)
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Received this plant in a trade labeled as D. petiolaris. Had some friends look at it, and the consensus with them is that it's a D. paradoxa. I'd like to know what others here felt it is.
It's currently 2-3 times the size of my other D. paradoxa plants but it is now becoming quite floriferous as it settles in. The petioles appear moderately pubescent and the traps have a very unique (to me anyway) appearance of a deep red outer rim surrounding a much lighter-colored center.
As usual, my little point & shoot digital camera and I cannot do the plant justice but here are the photos:
In real life, the flower appears darker (to my eye) than it appears in this photo
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Is it worth pulling together all the info from this post (and other posts on the subject) together and producing a Drosera cutting FAQ with photos?
I think this would be a worthwhile endeavor.
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Did you really read it? This is what brad said:To obtain the largest new VFT, all other things equal, is to keep two or even three leaf bases intact and bud this out. If you separate into individual leaf bases you will get more plants but they will be smaller in size. Three leaf base cuttings for me result in an adult VFT in one year.
This would seem to make sense since the more leaves you take at once, the closer you are to taking a division vs a cutting. You are also more likely to get some actual root tissue which probably makes it a full-fledged division.
One caution, don't be too aggressive with your cuttings. It is taking energy away from your parent plant. I always see those leaves on the plants and think how many nice babies they'd make - then I end up with a weakened parent plant... :cry: (but lots of babies)
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I agree with the others when I have cuttings w/ 'plantlet's developed in live sphagnum - the size doesn't seem to matter much as long as you ease the transition to a new environment & substrate [relatively high humidity for a period].
I'd like to ask the same question for cuttings placed in water with developing 'plantlets'. A friend who does this frequently recommended that the 'plantlets' be transplanted when very small as continued development under water causes increased difficulties for transplantation. It appears that the 'plantlets' which develop under water frequently do not develop roots (or develop very small ones).
I recently had my 1st 'plantlet' (petiolaris complex hybrid) develop under water and let it form 6-10 small leaves (very tiny < 0.3cm). After transplanting, it looked ok for approx. a week but now has deteriorated and appears to be dead. I'm thinking I let the plant develop too long under water before transplanting into a peat/sand mix.
I'd be interested in hearing of others experiences/recommendations in transplanting 'plantlets' produced from cuttings in water.
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I have been wondering for some time if there is a maximum size for a clump of a single clone of VFT. I have grown the same clone of VFT since I purchased it in 1955, so I know these plants can live a long time. However, every year or so, I repot the plant and the growth points tend to naturally divide into individual plants. But, what would happen in the natural environment if the plant was not divided and allowed to grow in situ for many years.
Hi Bob,
Can't comment on plants grown in the natural habitat since I haven't studied enough of them. Frank Galloway comes to mind as someone who could answer your questions (but haven't heard much from him for 2-3 yrs...).
Prior to this year's repotting binge, I had allowed a number of VFTs to grow untouched for years. For the 1st year or two, most grew vigorously and produced a number of new growth points which developed into distiinct plants w/in the clump. However, as time progressed, the plants became stunted and some plants in some clumps died (withered away). After repotting, none of the clumps appeared to have become 'pot-bound'. Also - none of the entire clumps died either (but that may be because I intervened before that could occur).
At least in my growing conditions, the plants appeared to be self-regulating their expansion (possibly showing a preference for seed dispersal as an expansion mechanism?).
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Earlier this year, I started growing members of the Petiolaris complex. Prior to that, I devoured any info I could find - mostly online (CPUK, Terra, websites, etc) but also past CPN & CPS journals (ones that I could dig up).
There seemed to be two main themes in all of the information: high temperatures (90-95+*F) and high humidity.
With this information in hand, I created a growing chamber that met these requirements and placed plants in it. After a few months (& one lighting mishap), I've noticed that the woolier species (D. ordensis, & D. lanata) do not appear to be doing well but the more glabrous species (D. petiolaris, D. petiolaris 'red', D. kenneallyi & D. 'ladle' (hybrid w/ probable parent of D. falconeri) are thriving.
I have talked w/ one other grower who confirmed that the more pubescent species have struggled in a very high humidity environment for him. This was a surprise since I hadn't come across this tidbit of information and was curious what other's experience has been.
Below is a photo of the D. kenneallyi:
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It seems to be an extrem fused tooth, that was clear from the beginning. So theres no special name for this?
Thanks,
Jan
No special name - that's characteristic of this mutation.
As Lophophora noted, in the spring the traps are usually normal. As the growing season progresses, the traps usually get more and more fused - but not always...
That's why this is my favorite VFT clone - you never know what the next trap will look like. So far this year, the traps on all of my plants are normal but I see that the next ones will have a "clumpy mascara" look to them (I can just see the teeth forming). From now thru the fall, there will be a huge amount of variability - rarely are two traps ever the same...
Gotta love 'em!
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So I see this growth that doesn't look like either leaf. Should I let the little guy flower if it is a flower?
If you do chop it off, treat it like a leaf cutting and see if you can get some add'l plants. I haven't heard how well ceph scapes work (vfts supposedly work well) so let us know if you decide to try it...
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I'm not sure if any do, but they do need high temperatures (30-40C). I've germinated the following seeds from A. Lowrie without any pre-treatment; D. derbyensis, D. ordensis, D. paradoxa, D. aff. paradoxa, D. kenneallyi, D. broomensis, D. lanata and D. aff. brevicornis, so I can state that these don't.
Vic
What kind of germination rates have you achieved w/ Lowrie seed?
What's the average time for germination? (ie: how long before you 'usually' see growth and when do you toss the batch and start over?)
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If you're unsure about the chemical approach, you can also try beneficial (predatory) nematodes. Several places sell them and, although pricey, don't have the downsides of nasty chemicals (esp if you're inside).
Good luck,
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The only Sarracenia that I have noticed consistently leaving dormancy later than the others is S. purpurea ssp. venosa. Each year I keep thinking they're dead and then eventually, growth appears and they take off - very healthy.
So far - anyway. :reappear:
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I seem to like all the mutation plants... since it is a mutation can't it be passed on? I would expect it to be a recessive trait, so has anyone every done an f2 of the cross of the t/c mutation plants?
This plant is quite rare in cultivation and fairly dificult to keep alive. Only a handful have sent up flowers and of those, many of the owners have chopped them off to keep from weakening the plant.
Although I've heard of a few w/ flowers, I've not heard of anybody getting seeds or anything beyond that.
I'd be curious if anyone has heard of more progress...
D. ordensis toddlers
in Carnivorous Plants in Cultivation
Posted
Received these as 'extras' in a trade a while ago when they were 'babies'. They've responded to periodic pulverized bloodworm fertilization with great growth but I am amazed at their coloration every time I look in this tank. Sometimes digital photos seem to change colors one way or another but the colors in this photo are pretty close to reality...