Marcel van den Broek

I seem to remember a signature of someone (honestly can't remember who) a couple of years ago stating: S. rosea, don't be ridiculous! anyway on the dews: keeping my fingers crossed for germination Dave....

Allen Lowrie and John Conran discribe a "new" sundew. Do you think it should be a full species or not? Make up your own mind, here is the paper: http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/files/54d1f828-4dae-444b-a2bb-a2ff00d06354/jabg-27-lowrie-gen.pdf

There is a 3 part Atlas on Utricularia in preparation that should provide a good overview. There has been some delay in this project but hopefully we will know more later this year. Taylor is a good book but not only lacks it new developments, it is also mainley an identification key. Lots of technical discriptions and linedrawings instead of pictures, so not a book for the casual hobbyist that seeks something like the books of Redfern or The Savage Garden. Other than that, no specific Utricularia books, though Allen Lowries books (both the first series as the new ones) deal with the Australian species and both Barry Rice and Peter d 'Amato did a nice section on them in their books.

They don't really use their webpage. It was made years ago but it really isn't active.

Not so much subsidies as facilities, specific spatial planning and what we call "Het drieluik" which means triptych of science, education and business. Basically that means that for instance the agri business has a saying in the agricultural education and funds some of the research. Actually it even goes as far that Dutch Agricultural schools don't belong to the deparment of education but to the department of agriculture. To get back on the question, Carniflora is strictly a wholesale nursery that does most of it's sales through the Flower auction straight to wholesale companies. They very rarely do business with other parties. Because they are flooded with mail by private individuals they often ignore mail and are very selective (and sometimes slow) in answering which is understandable if you know that every Tom, Dick and Harry between Malaga and Moscow that grows CP's mails them about plants and visits. Mostly they only answer if they know you or if they are very sure that someone is representing a large nursery. By the way, their English is indeed fine

Nice segment, plants look lovely

FRED, please!

Long before there was such a thing as forums people used the CP listserver, kind of a group e-mail (it is actually still around). The squirell wars I refered to was a very lenghty and heated discussion that lasted for weeks and reapeared just about every year. I would like to avoid that here, so ask a question,get an answer but don't drag every species of animal in the same thread and don't keep it going on and on. That to me looked like a serious risk given your ahh passionate statement about cats, hence my respons.

Oh boy, please no squirrel wars (or cat, rabbit etc) ! My fellow dinosaurs will know exactly what I mean for the rest of you..never mind, just don't start a whole topic on animal control/pests .

Some effort solution: A cage from wire mesh. I have my hardy pings protected that way from birds, the sides are wire mesh between poles and a frame with mesh between it rests on the top of the poles as a lid. Dig the mesh at least 80 cm in the ground too!. Easiest solution: Rabbit stew!

Actually the ICPS has distributed Sarracenia seeds from very rare plants and very specific locations in cooperation with the proper authorities in the past. These seeds have a location code that is known to the ICPS but to others it is just a number. However growers can still identify plants that originate from the same location as long as the code stays with the seedlings. Easy to do and if someone can get legal Cephalotus seeds into cultivation the ICPS will be happy to give them a code and maintain the key to that so it will be properly stored even if a person or a nursery isn't there anymore in the future. (if the interest in spreading location seeds is pure scientific with no commercial gain we can actually help distributing them through the ICPS seedbank, all (small) profits of this seedbank are used for conservation and nothing else!).

Nice!

The prices of genetic testing, even if you work out the proper markers first, will be to high even for profits made with some of the prices that I encounter.

It is fixed, but both video's are the same, D. gigantea. Thanks for posting though

I remember that place, no worries it will recover if left alone. Natural process.

Same issue as the Byblis video.

Video not playing as setting is private mate

I'll try and see if I can get Jan to expand our cultivar registration text on our website with some of the questions that frequently pop up. May take some time but as cultivars and their status is a reoccuring theme on this forum I think it would be a useful thing to do .

I'm not so sure Stephen. Of course I try to keep things simple in this posts (for the technical details of this Jan would be the best source as I only know the basics. That is why he's the registar and not me) but basically what I find in literature is that publication is sometimes but not always enough to have a cultivar named. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot) of details that can screw this up which is why the offical registration was invented in the first place. Mu advise is that it is always the best option to be sure (and once you have done the publication filling out the form will take no time at all and it's not like the ICPS is getting any money out of it...).

I'm not so sure Stephen. Of course I try to keep things simple in this posts (for the technical details of this Jan would be the best source as I only know the basics. That is why he's the registar and not me) but basically what I find in literature is that publication is sometimes but not always enough to have a cultivar named. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot) of details that can screw this up which is why the offical registration was invented in the first place. Mu advise is that it is always the best option to be sure (and once you have done the publication filling out the form will take no time at all and it's not like the ICPS is getting any money out of it...).

Not exactly. Technically it may not be called that as the process is only half completed. Basically everybody can still call a plant Dudley Watts untill that name is formally linked to your description and appears on the register. If someone else would try to register it, we would look at the publication and deny the application based on your publication but legally everybody can still use the name in common trade untill you register. Consider it like a patent. Of course it would be very bad form to highjack a name, but legally there is no barrier untll the process is completed.

Also there was a question about the cultivar Clayton submitted. The list on the home page is not yet updated with the cultivars registered in 2013. The March edition of CPN actually has a list of all registered cultivars that were processed in 2013: Cultivar names registered in 2013 Cephalotus ‘Clayton’s T Rex’ C.Clayton, Carniv.Pl.Newslett.42:145 (2013) 26.Dec. Cephalotus ‘Donna’s Destiny’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:21 (2011) 11.Jun. Cephalotus ‘Tina’s Hallelujah Trumpets’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:22 (2011) 11.Jun. Cephalotus ‘Jason’s Arks’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:23 (2011) 11.Jun. As you can see there is some growth in the cultivar market, which might just have prompted Richard's article (For the record, the ICPS grants registered cultivar status to every plant that passes through the registration process and meets its criteria. Those criteria are set by the International Society for Horticultural Science (ISHS). That doesn't mean we have an offical opinion on any specific plants, just that they made it through the prescribed procedure)

No, there is only one place you can register a cultivar of a carnivorous plant and that is the ICPS. "Dudley Watts" is NOT a cultivar at this point. However, Stephen has completed a very important step in the process as it all beging with a (valid) publication. AS you can see here http://www.carnivoro...ltivarsmain.php it is a 2 step process. Now the form needs to be filled out and processed. @Stephen, did you send the form to Jan yet? edit: it seems Stephen and I where writing at the same time....

Yes, it is. A location label, if proper records are kept makes it possible to link a plant to a specific population of these plants and corrsponding genetics. That opens all kinds of possibilties including even some from a cultivation point of view: the breeding between unrelated plants. A clone without a location is just a decoration object. You don't know anything about it and you like it or you don't and you give it a place or not. I very much regret that people insist on money as factor in this discussion as it distract annoyingly from the real discussion about how special are selected plants really compared to natural variation. A Dutch expression about the value of an object translates as "What a madman will give for it". This is in my opinion too often the case with CP's. I won't say people can't make money of plants, the nursery trade is a respect way of earning a living and why should an amateur don't make some money but I very much regret that to often it seems to be only about money. People react as if their daily income is at risk if somebody states that he thinks a large portion of plants with a name don't deserve that distinction. Makes me think of good old Billy Shakespeare: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much"

Allow me a response to some of the remarks. Richard Nunn is a board member of the ICPS and has no commercial interests in promoting specific plants. I think we should focus on the main point of this article which is that more and more people give a plant that does well for them an name and prizes shoot up. Few of these plants are registered cultivars and for most the supposed unique character is questionable as many won't display it under (slightly) different growing conditions. The whole point is that these so called unique character points are often not outside the range of normal variation in a population, in other words if you visit a healthy population you are likely to find plants that fit the typical form, as well as "Big Boy", "German Giant", etc perfectly. So one must ask the question if the named plants are really distinct enough to warrant a name or if people are just wasting a lot of money for less then a sure succes. Remember also that we are talking of a single species so we don't have crosses, regressive factors etc that make e.g. Sarracenia and Nepenthes such a good subject for variation and possible cultivars. The only variation in Cephalotus is the natural variation within the single species that responds to external conditions that will vary as those conditions vary. The only, limited, result of variation that can be achieved is by the very slow process of selective breeding, consequently crossing the largest or darkest plants among themself, discarding regular or less distinct plants. After many many years you might get a plant that genetically has a little more pigment or size. Most of the so called special plants on todays market won't meet this criterium as they are pcked out of a group and given an name straight away. As I said in other posts on this forum, named locations have scientific value as opposed to the commercial values of cultivars and unregistered selections. Therefore I personally prefer those any day. If you want to spend a lot of money on those selectons, be my guest. Richard has just given you the change to stop and think for a moment...really..just think about it and if you have the time look up "tulip mania" on Google read it and look in the mirror. Final remark: some people have suggested only that only a few people can collect location material so probably there is a commercial interest and to top this that this kind of material should be distributed for free. I hardly think that is a fair remark as nobody asks that named location Sarracenia should be distributed for free! As for collection permits, apart from straight scientists, to the best of my knowledge those are all held by the same people that distributed the original material in the first place.