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Marcel van den Broek

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Everything posted by Marcel van den Broek

  1. Lots of variation. Really wonder if it is all natural conditions or some actual variation (perhaps even subspecies level?) involved. Bot rivier is also a nice location as it is at some distance of the other locations going around.
  2. Language is easier for me..names actually makes sence to me as Afrikaans is so close to Dutch Didn't take pictures...
  3. Don't know Vogelgraat...probably Vogelgat which is a place and I have a plant from that location. It is somewhat stronger than the avarage plant. However for really different growth you should look at plants like location Baineskloof (more stilted), Gifberg and Van Rhynsdorp (both very red), Matroosberg (actually forms something that starts to look like a winterbud) and Montegue pass (self sterile as far as I can tell).
  4. always...and if you are near Utrecht...The Dutch society is at the Botanical garden at the annual Rockery plant sale (they always invite us and some hardy orchid guys) on the 11th of April if you have questions you want to ask...
  5. Exchange as in information It is always left up to the host what they allow...usually depends on the space available and what the costs to the host are...
  6. Could he be connected (or just trying to imply he is connected?) to this: http://www.ilgrappolodilazise.com/Parks/parco-natura-viva.html They are in Italy, they have carnivorous plants and he uses this name.....or else that might be used without permission too...
  7. Hi everyone, Carnivora will have its biannual (more or less) excursion to Carniflora in Aalsmeer again this year. A good change to look around in what is probably the largest carnivorous plant nursery in Europe and perhaps pick up a couple of plants. Ararflora will be present with a commercial sales stand. As usual we invite the members of our sister societies and forums to join us. Please note that Carniflora is a whole sale nursery and NOT open to the public. This is a special event for us and we like to keep that privilege so don't attempt to visit at any other time or date!! Date: May 23rd 2015 Time: 10:00 - 13:00 local Rietwijkeroordweg 35 Aalsmeer NL
  8. Ada, I'm not taking it personal. I justtry to make clear how things are. I don't have to like it but I do have to give the best information I got As for crapy descriptons: The ICPS (or any other official registar for other plants) is not allowed an opinion on the plant or the completeness of a description. There are a few rules to be followed (Jan does that check and knows more about it than I do) but if it meets those (very basic in my opinion) demands than we can't refuse it. In the category of wishfull thinking: It would be great if there was some sort of professional jury that would judge proposed cultivars on their merrits and the description but that is not the case unfortunately . Ordovic: Sorry, you are correct..My mistake. What I described with two Dixie Lace plants would be an F2, self or cross polination of F1's.
  9. Fred: I think that is what gets in the area of a grex registration. For the moment and despite heavy preasure by both commercial and hobbyist growers that is not allowed for any plants except orchids. Ada, there is no such thing as ICPS cultivar descriptions. The ICPS maintains a register of plants that get submited as a cultivar and as an unrelated issue allows people to publish a cultivar description they made. We don't have opinions (at least policy wise, personally is something else) on if it is good or not. If it meets the demands set for registration of a cultivar it is added. The rules say that if it matches the discription it IS the cultivar despite anything anyone might want to add. That is legally just an expression of the wishes of the selector. You can only hope people respect that wish but there is no punishment if they don't. A cultivar is not the same as having breeding rights. That too can be done but the proces is more complicated and means people are not allowed to take cutting of a plant they bought and sell them on for a set number of years. The only thing that a selector can do if he goes for a cultivar is express his wish and write an as accurate and detailed as possible description. And yes, that does mean that you can question the need for a registration....but it is free and a way to announce your breeding succes. Luckeily most people respect the formulated wishes and most buyers would only want a plant produced that way but that doesn't change the rules as I tried to explain...sorry
  10. Not true Ada, that is what I meant with the legallity of the added text that it should only be reproduced by vegetative means. Technically, if a seedling looks like it it will be considered Suspicion regardless of what the selector or for that matter most people will say. There is nothing in the rules that I could find that says you can make such an exception as the selector . Some will say that the text also doesn't say you can't and that is the big argument. I think everybody would prefer it otherways, but there are many things I would prefer like a system that can reject a submitted cultivar if it is a piece of you know what
  11. Sorry Dimitar, but you don't disagree with me with that statement but with the international rules for naming cultivars. The rules say they are, IF the display whatever makes the cultivar special. Most people don't like it, it is probably not a good thing but it still is what the book says. The link has been given several times on this forum so you can look it up if you want. Unfortunatelly wishing it was different doesn't change the rules
  12. Ok, someone wanted to know what I think about this,and while I haven't ploughed through all of this text I saw a couple of things that I thought I should respond to. In general I would say I mostly agree with Christian by the way. Ok here goes nothing: Generally speaking the term selfed is acceptable, though perhaps not elegant. Basically what I do is that if I name all my crosses as Mother x Father as this is the clearest notation of what the plant actually is. S. alabamensis with mother and father from two different locations is labeled as just what it is, S. alabamensis. It is not a hybrid so no reason to go for a mother x father notation. I do make a not of the locations it's parents came from if those are actual wild locations. The ONLY value of this is that it gives a rough idea of the gene pool of this plant and that is all. there is no real science value in it nor any real horticultural need. If a plant is selfed so say an alabamensis from location X, I label the plant alabamensis location X as the only genetic make up of this plant is pure location X. There is no need to say it is selved. One might argue that a selfed plant can be weaker or has more change of mutations, but basically ANY plant that has been in cultivation for a long time will change a bit as a response to cultivation conditions, even if you use cuttings. I consider this small changes not relevant enough to have influence on naming. Besides...how much do we really know about the "named locations"? Unless you collected it yourself or can backtrack to the person that did there is always a change of error as you have to trust the chain of people who had the material before you bought the plant to not make mistakes, be honest, etc. Now we come to a special category, the cultivars. A cultivar is a selected plant from a group of plants and somebody took the trouble of naming that individual. There is some misunderstanding about the idea that a cultivar can't be reproduced by seed. That is not true. Basically the code for naming cultivars says that if seeds from a cultivar display the character that resulted in the naming of that cultivar technically they are that cultivar.... so in a batch of 50 seedlings maybe 3 or 4 will technically be the cultivar and may be named so. This is often not what the person that made the selection wants so he adds to the description something like "to maintain the character of this cultivar it needs to be reproduced a-sexually". The lawfullness of such a statement will the code actually says something different can be debated at length! I won't do that here, I'll just say that following this request from the selector is considered the right thing to do and also that it gives a somewhat better change that the plant you buy will actually looked like the one you saw in somebodies greenhouse. So, if you have a cultivar and you selfed it it is the correct thing to do to name it cultivar name + selfed. People will then know that it has the same genetic make up as the cultivar but that there is a large change that it will look slightly different. If they want to take that change, that is up to them...you made that change clear by naming it in this way. Glancing over the things others wrote I would like to say a few more things: First of all: it is NOT correct naming plants F1, etc. This kind of naming refers to a specific kind of breeding to get a homogenous crop in agriculture. Basically an F1 is a hybrid between TWO lines of inbreeding. So both mother and father are inbred, but they are NOT the same plant. So if a plant is mother and father it can't be an F1. Two different specimens of say 'Dixie lace'can produce an F1 but not just one plant that is selfed. The idea behind this is that you mass the best of the best trades together and then make a cross that will procuce ofspring that is very stable. Second: The Stone county discussion came by. There is NO Stone County in Alabama, it is in Mississippi. What likely happend is that someone found the plant in teh field and saw a sign saying Stone County....he or she wrote that down and added Alabama think that is where he/she was. Stone County actually lies on the border with Alabama so the error could have been meters or kilometers...no telling but it is a fact that the border between the states here is an artificial line. There is no topografy like roads, mountains or waterways that it follows so without a GPS...well basically a bog looks like a bog on both sides of an atrificial line... Well, that is my 5 eurocents...Next topic
  13. ICPS facebook forum...fastes growing FB CP page on the web
  14. Don't know what might be wrong for you to get that message but Carniflora is stricktly a wholesale nursery and in general doesn't respond to e-mails by private persons anyway so if hey don't know you as a seller your best options is go by a wholeseller connected to the flower auction to which they supply. They would have to have a full time employee to answer all the individuals e-mailing them asking about 1 or 5 plants. Luckely for the private individuals the Dutch Society (Carnivora) will set up an open day at this nursery this year. As usuall our sister organisations will be invited when we have an exact day.
  15. Nikon Coolpix P520 bridge camera works great for me. 42x zoom which roughly translates from 24 to 1000 mm, 18.1 megapixels, full hD movie, GPS. Very light and easy to carry. No lens changing in the field if you want to go from close up of an utric to that bird that is sitting in the tree 300 m away.
  16. I regret to inform everyone that absolutely NO offers were received to host an EEE in 2015 (or additional representatives of societies not yet represented in the committee). The societies that at the moment seem to be strong enough have various reasons not to commit for 2015 but to prefer another year. They are recovering from a previous event or preparing for another specific year (like the 2016 ICPS conference or a jubilee). It would be a great pity to miss out on this event so one final call: Who wants to have a go at the EEE 2015? While we prefer the EEE to be a society event for obvious reasons, we are willing to consider other bids like gardens or people not (yet) organized in a society. As it will be an EEE and our "brand" we will of course look into the offer if it matches the criteria of an EEE. Think about show, lectures and sales but also travel and accommodation issues. Should you want to make an offer you can send me a PM through this forum or e-mail: voorzitter [at] carnivora [dot] nl (notation to avid automated spam write all together and use the symbols for in between [ ] ) On behalf of the EEE committee, Marcel
  17. That is terrible Daniel..but at least your parents and you are alive. Do let me know when you are able to start rebuilding..I will be happy to send you some seeds etc. For now lots of strength!
  18. Andy is not always available so be patient. The forum is running normal so did you have any recent brower updates? Had some FF isues in the past. Also, if you have the side bar but just the new content since last visit (or whatever option you chose) is not working try another option. If that doesn't work it is highly likely a brower bug, if it does you an set it back to whatevr you use normally and it will most likely work again. Small inconveniences...they happen
  19. How old is he? For actuall small childeren there are some special story type books like this: http://www.amazon.com/Elizabite-Adventures-Carnivorous-Curious-George/dp/0395977045 http://www.amazon.com/Plants-Animals-Rookie-Read-About-Science/dp/0516273094/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0MSVPG034496FY116YZC http://www.amazon.com/Hungry-Plants-Step-into-Reading-Step-4/dp/0375825339/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y Not to promote Amazon but it does have all the data on 1 page From say 12 years I would say, go for Peter D' Amato's Revised version of The Savage garden. It is relatively easy to read and actually deals with growing the plants.
  20. For those who haven't seen it yet: Here is a nice page that goes into all the splits that have been made: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cp/Drosera_indica_complex.php
  21. 11th ICPS Conference 2016, Call for proposals. After the successful and exciting event in Cairns, Australia it is about time to begin thinking about the next ICPS conference scheduled for 2016. According to the principle of fair global distribution and the set schedule, the next venue should preferably be located in Europe/Africa/Middle East. If you or your society feels this should be your turn, please send a proposal by email to: marcel[at]carnivorousplants.org. Please supply in your proposal information on the person/society (with contact details, preferably email) who would like to organize the conference, the intended venue (capacity, equipment), travel details, accommodation, field trip opportunities and any ideas you find useful for the ICPS board of directors to make a choice (in favor of your proposal). Please understand that, while potentially interesting from a theoretical perspective, proposals without a direct (personal) commitment to organize a conference cannot be accepted for serious consideration (or further discussion) by the board. The ICPS is prepared to distribute information on the forthcoming event to its members and if requested, monetary support to cover advance expenses can be supplied. The conference should, however, be economically self-sustained so a partial payment by the ICPS can be reimbursed subsequently. If you have any questions about what should be in a proposal or have questions about what to expect when you try to set up for a conference you can ask your questions by mail at the e-mail address mentioned before. A “Conference-manual” containing tips, tricks and hard earned experience of those who organized a conference before you is available to help you along the way. Your proposal should be received by the 15th of March 2015. Thank you very much for your consideration. Marcel van den Broek President, ICPS
  22. Wrong on all accounts The correct common name is Venus's Flytrap. The fact that just about everybody says it wrong doesn't make it right Also, even if you consider it old fashioned the large historical section of this book (including prints of original letters and bio's of the original scientists) makes it an acceptable title that actually covers the content. With the exception of the mentioned reproductions the book is written in clear, modern English. Actually, since most of the text is done by Tim it actually is less...euh..dramatised?...English than Stewy usually uses. Good book, but only if you're really in to the plants. 30% history lesson , 30% science , 40% mutated beyond function plants they call cultivars
  23. Call for proposals EEE 2015 & EEE representatives. Proposals: If you wish to host the next EEE you can submit a proposal to the EEE committee by e-mailing it to the president of the Dutch society at voorzitter[at]carnivora.nl. Your proposal should be written in English and include: Your society or group and country Contact details of your coordinator (minimum = name +e-mail address) and the same details of a back up contact. The intended location of the event The intended time of year Will there be a conference dinner? Will there be an option for a fieldtrip? Your compliance with the basic EEE demands, which by its nature should include An exhibition of carnivorous plants Some form of sales/exchange event Lectures, to be delivered in English Distribution of information to attendees in English Any information you might think will help the committee to reach a discussion.Proposals should be in by November 1st 2014 as the committee intends to make her choice during the November month. EEE representatives: Not all countries and/or societies have submitted a representative for the EEE committee since our last call for said representatives. If you wish to submit someone, the EEE committee discusses topics by the use of a Face book page in English. In some later stage a website will become active. You can submit the contact details (e-mail and Face book name) of your intended representative also to voorzitter[at]carnivora.nl. The EEE committee
  24. Ok guys, most things have been said already, some of it actually quite accurate. Just a short summary: The ICPS applies the rules for cultivar registration as they are formulated in a code by the ISHS. There is no influence or space for an opinion by the ICPS in this proces. It is just the ICRA, the organisation appointed to carry out the registration. Information on the ISHS organisation can be found, as was correctly mentioned by mobile, here: http://www.ishs.org/sci/icra.htm. The actual code you can find here: http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf. All 200 and something pages of them! Just a technicallity, but what is actually being registered is the cultivar NAME, not the cultivar itself. The cultivar itself is described in whatever journal or book is chosen, but there is no registration of said cultivar involved. The idea about registration of the name is to prevent two plants having the same name, not to work out how unique they are. Having said that, every ICRA, has to follow the code. If the Galanthus guys are not following those rules they can get into trouble as they do not have the authority to have an opinion on the value of the cultivar, they just need to see if the registration demands are met. (By the way, the appointed ICRA is NOT the "Galanthus lovers society" but the Royal General Bulbgrowers Association KAVB). Why don't we submit a proposal to fix the rules? One reason being manpower has already been mentioned, The second is more important. As the code applies to the registration of cultivarnames of ALL plants it doesn't matter what we (ICPS or even whole CP community) think. We need to convince at least 50% of the ISHS "board" to accept a change that will apply to all plants. Let's be honest: We don't nearly carry enough wheight for that guys. O and if you want to ask me something, send a pm. I honestly don't read every post as that would be a day job. Somebody pointed me at this discussion or I wouldn't have seen it as I'm not so much into cultivar pictures which the topic suggests.
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