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Everything posted by Marcel van den Broek
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Once again I see it is needed to explain the cultivar registration proces as people don't seem to understand it. A plant becomes an official registered cultivar when the following proces is followed: 1. Give it a name 2. Make a description of the plant according to the rules set by the International Society for Horticultural Science (ISHS). 3. Publish this description in a acceptabel publication (book, magazine etc with a good distribution/availability) 4. Submit this publication to the ICPS which is tasked by the ISHS to keep a registar of these names. So, the ICPS does NOT make the rules and can only obey them. All issues with what is or is not a "good" cultivar should be brought before the ISHS. The registration proces within the ICPS is in the very professional hands of Jan Schlauer and I would imagation it is quite painfull to him to see all this remarks about lack of professionalism etc by people who don't understand the process. So please, if you must vent that you have issues, direct them to the proper auhority, this being the ISHS and NOT the ICPS. (I'm not angry at anyone, just a bit sad )
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Any reputable stores that do non-CPs?
Marcel van den Broek replied to SilentGuy's topic in Other Plants
Gert Hoogenstrijd has a very good collection of non-cps including some of the mentioned species. www.araflora.com good dealer, nice guy. -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
Ok, here is the exact info on cultivar registration. A plant must be described as a cultivar following the rules set forward by the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. This text should be published in a proper publication with a reasonable distribution such as society newsletters. The editor of the publishing jourmal should ofcourse check if the criteria of the ICNCP are met. The published article should be submitted to the ICPS. This is (among lots of other things ) the authority that takes care of registration, but does not check the text of the publication. It is an administrative function only. If a cultivar is not published yet, publication in CPN, the ICPS-newsletter, is possible (and recommended by me for the obvious reason, but other newsletters are really fine too). So now the description is published and registered. That closes the proces. It is not possible to change an already published descrition for the logcal reason that people have labeled plants and produced offspring of those plants by following the original description and the ICNCP rules and it would be impossible to sort this out after the fact if it would be possible to change the description and thus the definition of what is cultivar X. If you disagree with the rules of the ICNCP, the only option is to send them a request to change their rules. As these rules are the same all over the world and for all plants this would be a long proces with absolutely no guarantee of succes (actually, knowing this kind of organisations I would say it would be a very slim change that you can pull it off). The ICPS has no inluance what so ever on this organisation, compare it to a civil servant that produces your drivers license. He or she can fill it out but can't change the rules of your driverstest or traffic laws. ...and of course should you manage to get the rules changed it would only apply to new cultivars, submitted after the date of change. I hope this helps to make everything clear to all involved in this discussion and those who have been reading it -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
As I said, the ICPS can only apply the rules, not change them and you're looking at my second post about the rules (hence..as I explained earlier). The original text was a bit more complete: As I understand it the issue here is as follows: whether a plant can be an official cultivar or not is ruled by the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. This code allows for cultivars to be reproduced both sexual and asexually because it would be very difficult to keep cultivars of annual plants any other way. The rule therefore was created that exually created offspring was to be considered the cultivar provided that the offspring displayed all the charasteristics of the cultivar. So in a bunch of seedlings only those that match the cultivar discription could be called by that name, all seedlings that don't match (basic genetics would say that should be most of them unless it is a very loose description) all traits can't be called the cultivar. At some point people recognised that this might be a problem (and also for commercial reasons) so they started adding to the text that to keep the cultivar it might only be reproduced asexually. As this is writen down in the official description this limitation is valid, if the grower ommited this limitation the above applies. -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
I never have problems with a discussion/argument as long as it is ment to make things clear I'm not the cultivar expert at the ICPS, Jan is so as I said I'll ask. As I see it the issue is in the "similar plant". What a good cultivar description needs is a very good and exact list of what makes the plant unique. The reason many plants are not registered as cultivars is that however pretty they are it is very difficult to name one, preferably more, points in which it is special and not like anything else. The cultivar system is not that old and especially the descriptions of the earlier cultivars weren't always as good as they should be but at that time nobody had any idea howmany people wanted to register something. Look for instance at all the mutations in VFT's. And as for finding a similar plant to S. x 'Adrian Slack', that is the wrong example as the description of good old Slack include this text: "Propagation: vegetative only". So cuttings of an original, no seeds. As I understand the rules had this text not been added than you might call a seedling of 'Adrian Slack' that matches the description by the name 'Adrian Slack', but still not a totally unrelated plant that happens to match the description too. -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
sorry, double post, seems I can't delete it completly so I emtied it.. -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
The ICPS is the only organisation that can register an offical cultivar, but has to operate by the rules set forward by the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. As I explained earlier this code allows for cultivars to be reproduced both sexual and asexually because it would be very difficult to keep cultivars of annual plants any other way. The rule therefore was created that exually created offspring was to be considered the cultivar provided that the offspring displayed all the charasteristics of the cultivar. The ICPS can't apply rules at random, the rules are the rules and the don't apply only to CP's but to all species of cultivated plant. I don't think a cultivar description can be changed, even if the original applicant requests it but I'll ask. -
'Hurricane Creek White' cultivar description
Marcel van den Broek replied to prized's topic in Sarracenia
As I understand it the issue here is as follows: whether a plant can be an official cultivar or not is ruled by the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. This code allows for cultivars to be reproduced both sexual and asexually because it would be very difficult to keep cultivars of annual plants any other way. The rule therefore was created that exually created offspring was to be considered the cultivar provided that the offspring displayed all the charasteristics of the cultivar. So in a bunch of seedlings only those that match the cultivar discription could be called by that name, all seedlings that don't match (basic genetics would say that should be most of them unless it is a very loose description) all traits can't be called the cultivar. At some point people recognised that this might be a problem (and also for commercial reasons) so they started adding to the text that to keep the cultivar it might only be reproduced asexually. As this is writen down in the official description this limitation is valid, if the grower ommited this limitation the above applies. -
DRosera zeyheri
Marcel van den Broek replied to Nigel H-C's topic in Carnivorous Plants in Cultivation
Nice little South African gem Nigel. -
Greg Bourke
Marcel van den Broek replied to Nigel H-C's topic in General Carnivorous Plant Discussion
Send you an email with his e-mail at the botanical garden Nigel -
CP sale in Amsterdam?
Marcel van den Broek replied to Katarina's topic in General Carnivorous Plant Discussion
Here is Gert's new site: http://www.araflora.com/ Stay out of Amsterdam on the 30th, we are gowing to crown King Billy IV (actually he wants to be know as Alexander) so you'll probably have to crowdsurf if you try especially since the church and palace are relatively close to the flowermarket. As it was also thebirthday of the queen-mother and our queen kept the celebrations on this day it is regarded as a Sunday. Maybe a good day for the botanical garden. -
Nursery visit to Carniflora
Marcel van den Broek replied to Marcel van den Broek's topic in Open Days & Events
As I said: "The members and board of Carnivora would like to invite the members of our sister societies to join us when we visit the Carniflora nursery." And if you don't belong to any of those sisters...do come along and see what you're missing:-) -
Hi Greg, I grow arcturi from several locations in The Netherlands for about 5 years and the plants are doing fine . All are grown from seed. Like Nigel I lost stenopetala after a couple of years, though I don't think it died from lack of light on the spot I had it.
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I always say join you local society as they will have events and contacts that you will use most. If there is no local society, join the ICPS. Join the ICPS also if you want "more". The ICPS newsletter (CPN) has more information and, to be fair, also more technical information, new cultivars, etc. Also the ICPS supports other conservation projects and provides other information. Check out the websites and you'll see the differance. I was a member of Carnivora before I was a member of the iCPS, but now I'm happy to be both
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Nursery visit to Carniflora
Marcel van den Broek replied to Marcel van den Broek's topic in Open Days & Events
Hi Marlon, It's not a set program. Anytime between 10:00 and 13:00 you can walk in and have a look around. There will be staff and board members of Carnivora to answer questions and there will be some plant sales going on. It very infomal, just a very wonderfull place to meet up, talk and maybe take the odd plant home. -
The members and board of Carnivora would like to invite the members of our sister societies to join us when we visit the Carniflora nursery. Date: May 25th (Saturday) Time: 10:00 - 13:00 Local Dutch Time Address: Rietwijkeroordweg 35 Aalsmeer The Netherlands Attention: This nursery is NOT open to the public. Visits on any other date or time are neither appreciated by the owner or the board of Carnivora. For reasons of change of infections visitors are not allowed to bring their own plants into the nursery for sale or trade. We hope many of you will join us for this visit that is a returning tradition to our society
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CP sale in Amsterdam?
Marcel van den Broek replied to Katarina's topic in General Carnivorous Plant Discussion
The Flowermarket is set up along the river Amstel near the "Munt" which is the Mint tower at the end of Amstedams main shopping street. It is open all year daily except on sunday. On the 10th and 11th of May (Friday and Saturday) there will be a flowermarket in the botanical garden of Leiden. It's a little more than half an hour by train from Amsterdam central station and Carnivora will be there selling all kinds of CP's, ncluding specials from members (right know I'm hopefull to have several species of Utricularia and Byblis on the stand as well as lot's of high end Sarracenia. Usually Gert Hoogenstrijd is also there with a sales stand so best change to get something special in that month. And of course you don't want to miss the CP collection of the botanical garden itself. If all goes well the brand new greenhouse will be ready. I visited the buildingsite a couple of weeks ago and it will knock of your socks! Also: If all goes as planned Carnivora, the Dutch CPS has a trip to the Carniflora nursery in Aalsmeer on Sa the 25th of May where plants will be on sale. Guests are welcome, but we still have to verify this as we unfortunately lost our events coordinator after an argument within the board. If all goes well I'll make an official announcement on this forum. -
Atlantic White Cedar Stand with S. Purpurea
Marcel van den Broek replied to Quogue's topic in Carnivorous Plants in Habitat
I'm dissapointed! No Atlantic white cedar pictures Nice pictures as always Matt @ Andreas: "tipitiwitchet" is an old reference to venusflytrap, actually a rather naughty one as it refers to certain female parts. Check out the one and only Dr. Barry Rice as he explains: -
Finally... U. menziesii
Marcel van den Broek replied to maurizio's topic in Carnivorous Plants in Cultivation
Very nice -
Aristolochoides x gracilis?
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The Ark of life project that I help out with has been told that there is a female clipeata in Japan that will flower in a week or two. We can get some seeds for our Rare Nepenthes collection (housed in the Botanical garden of Leiden) if we can find pollen to send. Anyone able and willing to help out?
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CALL FOR PROPOSALS 10TH ICPS CONFERENCE 2014 After this summer's successful and exciting 9th ICPS Conference in Seekonk, USA, it is now time to begin thinking about the next ICPS Conference scheduled for 2014. According to the principle of fair global distribution and the set schedule, the next venue should preferably be located in Asia/Australia/New Zealand. If you or your society feels this should be your turn, please email a proposal by 31 March 2013 to [email protected]. Your proposal should include: contact details on the person/society who would organize the Conference, the intended venue (location, capacity, equipment), travel details, accommodations, field trip opportunities, and any ideas that will assist the ICPS Board of Directors to select your proposal. Please understand that, while potentially interesting from a theoretical perspective, proposals without a direct (personal) commitment to organize a Conference cannot be accepted for serious consideration (or further discussion) by the Board. The ICPS is prepared to distribute information on the forthcoming event to its members and, if requested, monetary support to cover advance expenses. The Conference should, however, be economically self-sustained so a loan by the ICPS can be reimbursed subsequently. If requested, the ICPS will consider publishing the Conference Proceedings. If you have questions about what should be in a proposal or how to set up a Conference, first take a look at our Conference Manual that contains tips, tricks, and hard-earned experience of those who organized previous Conferences. This will be downloadable from the ICPS homepage shortly. Alternatively, contact me and I'll send you a copy and/or try to answer your questions.
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Aldrovanda made the IUCN red list! Adam Cross not only wrote a pretty good book, he also submitted his research to the IUCN who responded by placing Aldrovanda on their red list. It's been a long time since a CP has been added and it was long overdue. www.iucnredlist.org/details/162346/0 Nicely done
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EEE 2012 Seller Question
Marcel van den Broek replied to Kryptonite's topic in Previous EEE Years - Archive
Peter Habart