P. orchidioides - what do your look like?

[Joseph Clemens]

Pot is for scale. Flower (inset) is same scale as plant and below is a hyperlink to higher resolution image, especially for those on broadband:

Link to higher resolution

[Markus]

Your plant is P. moranensis 'orchidioides'. Please don't confuse these two species.

You surely remember the following post...

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.p...ht=orchidioides

You'll find the true P. orchidioides in postcard No. 5 on Eric's website:

http://www.pinguicula.org/A_world_of_Pingu.../Postcard_5.htm

Markus

[Joseph Clemens]

So, Markus, what you are saying is that you believe this plant to be a Pinguicula moranensis mimic of Pinguicula orchidioides? BTW, single quotes are reserved for use with registered cultivar names.

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Isn't the synonym supposed to be Pinguicula stolonifera and though the plants I have are very easy to propagate (many leaves for pullings). I have yet to see them exhibit the trait of stolon production (they are most likely not Pinguicula stolonifera synonym Pinguicula orchidioides). The petals are narrow and come to very sharp points and they have obvious petioles with a fringe of prominent hairs (though they do not appear to be as hirsute as Pinguicula orchidioides as shown in the photos in Fernando's Postcard N°5 -- Postcard N°5) .

I suspect this plant may possibly be different form of Pinguicula oblongiloba or even a mimic for Pinguicula orchidioides, perhaps possibly even a form of Pinguicula moranensis, as has already been mentioned.

If this is a form of Pinguicula moranensis imitating a different species - how would this be determined? If this is Pinguicula oblongiloba - how would identification be certain?

Though I love Pinguicula I am sometimes frustrated by the amount of misidentification that exists (though I'm sure it could be much worse). I try to be as discriminating as possible in order to avoid magnifying the confusion. BobZ has really helped my task by organizing and consolidating existing web-based photographic information. Still there are conundrums to be unraveled.

--Pinguicula moranensis (var. orchidioides), a purported mimic of Pinguicula orchidioides.

--Pinguicula orchidioides --- mention has been made that this species is not in general cultivation. Could a positive identification be made by observation of the wet, nape-hair, look of the petiole? Do other Pinguicula species exhibit this trait?

--Pinguicula stolonifera ?

How would Pinguicula oblongiloba be identified? I cannot find a standard photograph of its flower.

[epbb]

Maybe this can help in our discussion

http://www.pinguicula.org/Publications/P_orchidioides.pdf

For me, P. moranensis 'orchidioides' that was sold under the name P. orchidioides at least in Europe (hence the quote for us to distinguish this clone) is a P. moranensis.

According to S.Zamudio, it can be P. moranensis var. moranensis or P. moranensis var. neovolcanica according to the winter bulb (I have to check at home if my plant is adult enough to be representative in its winter bulb). More datas as collection location is unknown for me.

P. stolonifera have stolons and the winter bulb is dense and looking as a bulb (I don't grow it) BUT the flower looks like the one in picture shown by Joseph. Here is the publication with a comparaison between P. stolonifera and P. oblongiloba.

http://www.pinguicula.org/Publications/P_s...P_laxifolia.pdf. It seems to be restrictive to Sierra de Juarez.

Let's read the publication and let's go on speaking

[Markus]

So, Markus, what you are saying is that you believe this plant to be a Pinguicula moranensis mimic of Pinguicula orchidioides? BTW, single quotes are reserved for use with registered cultivar names.

I’m sure about it because I grow this plant for myself and it looks quite similar to your plant except that it is currently in it’s winter-rosette stage. This term is used by most growers for the fake orchidioides plants and single quotes are used to distinguish these plants as Eric said because there is no regular term for this form.

Isn't the synonym supposed to be Pinguicula stolonifera and though the plants I have are very easy to propagate (many leaves for pullings). I have yet to see them exhibit the trait of stolon production...

I think leaf-pullings have nothing to do with species identification as nearly all Mexican Pinguicula can easily be propagated by leaf-cuttings.

If this is a form of Pinguicula moranensis imitating a different species - how would this be determined? If this is Pinguicula oblongiloba - how would identification be certain?

I suspect this plant may possibly be different form of Pinguicula oblongiloba or even a mimic for Pinguicula orchidioides, perhaps possibly even a form of Pinguicula moranensis, as has already been mentioned. How would Pinguicula oblongiloba be identified? I cannot find a standard photograph of its flower.

According to the publication P. oblongiloba can easily be identified by it’s onion-like winter bulb burried deep in the soil quite similar to P. macrophylla. The true P. orchidioides has a rounded artichoke-like winter-bulb, also burried in the soil. P. moranensis orchidioides definitely don’t build this kind of winter-leaves. The winter-rosette is similar to a typical P. moranensis so a photo of your plant in it’s winter-rosette stage would help...

Though I love Pinguicula I am sometimes frustrated by the amount of misidentification that exists (though I'm sure it could be much worse). I try to be as discriminating as possible in order to avoid magnifying the confusion. BobZ has really helped my task by organizing and consolidating existing web-based photographic information. Still there are conundrums to be unraveled.

Bob Ziemer indeed makes a great job and we all take our profit from his unique photo finder. Unfortunately most links beneath P. orchidioides show P. moranensis ‚orchidioides’ (even one of it is P. immaculata).

--Pinguicula orchidioides --- mention has been made that this species is not in general cultivation. Could a positive identification be made by observation of the wet, nape-hair, look of the petiole? Do other Pinguicula species exhibit this trait?

--Pinguicula stolonifera ?

I grow the true P. orchidioides and the plant currently is in it’s winter-bulb which looks excatly like the drawing in Hans Luhr’s publication. The narrow summer leaves are stalked and oval with prominent hairs at the base. The leaf margins are rolled inwards. I will post pictures of the plant as soon as some summer leaves are visible. Hopefully the plant will flower in my care....

Cheers,

Markus

[Joseph Clemens]

I guess my biggest problem then, is that under my growing conditions most of my Mexican Pinguicula don't grow Winter-form leaves. Fortunately they don't seem to mind and most bloom profusely despite their unchanging cultural conditions, a few bloom rarely or sporadically. One obvious shortcoming is not being able to use Winter-form rosette observation for identification purposes, this can be problematic.

[rosolis76]

Hello Joseph,

Here is my P.orchidioides ( not moranensis "orchidioides")

Hope you like it

Best Regards,

Damien

[Tim]

This particular clone of P. moranensis doesn't form an underground bulb but very small, tight leaves like P. gypsicola and several others during the winter when grown outdoors under natural light.

[fischermans]

Hello

Hope it help you to see a winter bulb of P.orchidioides

1

Regards Alexander