30 replies to this topic

[MalcolmP]

I have said elsewhere in the forum:
"I would rather give my money to a helpful member of the forum who has some plants to sell, than to an unknown vendor on ebay.

and bugmuncher has said
"i will definately be buying plants from members here but i cant wait 30 day

I have looked at a few nondescript (in the vernacular as well as maybe in the biologoical/nomenclature sense) plants in my local GC but have not been enthused,


now I have thought of another problem with the probationary ForSaleWants period:
if one has only a few or none (or one in my case ! ) CPs ,,,as a newbie one soon runs out of things to say/post about !
Which may be a relief to older memebers who may be fed up with all the 'noise' from new members !
This will all be of little significance in a few months (or years)  time, but time waits for no man, we are already near the summer solstice!
(yeah, I know ,,, what summer !!)

Is it entirely beyond the wit of man and mods to devise a system to distinguish between enthusiastic and potential members of the fold who would like to buy some CPs and those who join only to advance their own pecuniary desire ?
I suppose, in other words, I wonder if the probationary period is more designed as a "rite of passage" for newcomers, rather than as a relief to the burdens of management of admin and mods ? Sorry to be so blunt !

The other possibility is to buy from the websites of those who appear on various forums as supporters and/or sponsors but, frankly, the standards of description of products and services offered by some leave a lot to be desired, not to mention the miserable standard ( or total lack of ) pictures of plants offered.

Thanks for reading,
some of these thoughts have been prompted by recent activity in the Auctions section !!

Edited by MalcolmP, 14 June 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[alexa]

Hi MalcolmP

This is an on going problem that the mods are aware of, I'm not going to say that we have all the answers, but you're thoughts are of course, welcome. One thing that I would like to add, older members (not in age but amount of posts) are never fed up with 'noise' from new members, this is what the forum is for, to encourage new growers, you never know one of them may change the CP totally and change how we grow the plants forever!!

As I see we both live in SW England, you would be welcome to visit my collection (this goes for anyone), I have a small amount of plants that I'm looking for new homes for if you are still looking.

Kind regards
Alex.

[Tricky Utrici]

It is difficult when you are new, experience will point you in the right direction after you've made a few buying mistakes. I still make the wrong decision from time to time, I bought a moorei Elizabeth last winter, got all excited when it started to grow, now it is clearly a Brooks Hybrid! I must have a dozen or more plants bought mostly on Ebay that are not what they were advertised as. On the other hand there are some good sellers on Ebay. So what is the answer?

The best way to buy plants is to go to open days or visit growers in your area, see what you are buying, there is no better way.

Second, buy from forum members, if you're unhappy make a complaint to the seller, you'll find most are very nice people to deal with and you'll find some very good sellers, like Alexa, I've had plants from him too.

Third Ebay, you'll make wrong decisions, pay a lot of money for plants, and sometimes you won't get what you paid for, but you won't find out until months later. Lots of good sellers as well though.

btw I happen to be having my open day this Saturday, Midsomer Norton, see open days thread for details if you're interested.

Best of luck.

Les

[ada]

Only 2 weeks left now Malcolm,i'm sure there will be plenty of plants left by the end of June.
As the two post above explain,there are many good honest growers out there.There are also many that will sell any old tat,saying it is something it isn't just for the money.
So don't be hasty,do a bit of homework and save yourself some money with the time you have left.
Ask the growers where they got their plants and if you want ask for pictures of it/mother plant now,any good grower will do this,then you have a record of what you've bought and you could always post negative points on here.

[bugmuncher]

[quote name='MalcolmP' timestamp='1339636721' post='318575']

and bugmuncher has said
"i will definately be buying plants from members here but i cant wait 30 day

i think this has been quoted as a bit of a negative point, but its not. i am just as excited about building my collection as any other newbie and 30 days seems like a long time but i think it is a good idea, as i have said in another thread , i am a moderator on a tropical fish forum and we have people joining the forum just to sell fish, they have no other input on the forum , i think any genuine member will be happy to contribute to the forum and will not have a problem waiting the 30 days required. the probation period will fly by and before you know it you will be buying plants from members here and will forget you ever had to wait 30 days.

[MalcolmP]

Sorry bugmuncher, I didn't mean any negativity, I agree with all you said and in the other thread,
I should not have quoted you personally, I should have found a way to express my thoughts more generally,
I was using it as a lead into my "another problem" thesis.
I was trying to offer thoughts, sort of speaking aloud, to entertain mods and admin when they have their next coffee morning :)

Thank you for your kind offers Alex and Les, but I think I ought to serve out my 30days cos I have seen another fault with my post, it looks like I was making a "Want" advert in the wrong place and time. That was not my intention, sorry, massive attack of impatience !

ada> "Only 2 weeks left now"
Yep, feels like eons :) , as bugm. says it should fly by, but at my age time is short :)  As above- excess of impatience.

I'll go sit in a darkened room for a couple of weeks  

[Ian Salter]

MalcolmP, on 15 June 2012 - 00:00 AM, said:

I'll go sit in a darkened room for a couple of weeks  

You need to sit in a south facing window and keep wet on hot days.
And if that doesn't do it for you then go build a greenhouse, you will need one soon enough.

[0rmus]

Being a fellow newbie I can totally relate to MalcolmP's views on this. It’s probably worth mentioning that up until very recently the probation period was 90days! Having just joined the forum before the implementation of the 90day probation period * that was introduced at the start of the growing season*, I definitely got a sense that the forum was catering for more experienced members and felt maybe I was intruding on a clique.

Though I realise the action was spurred on by troubles in the trade section and was put there to protect the members, the direct implication on genuine new members is less than welcoming. Ironically I think its newer people to this hobby that would gain the most from the trades section of this forum as it allows them to start there collection often more affordably and in ways more safely than some other outlets. I think its newer members that are more likely to fall victim to the pit falls of false advertising in what can be quite a confusing labelling system with these plants. Also its newer members who are likely to buy the more common types that are regularly being sold off to clear space.

The 30days is definitely more bearable but if the forums intent is really to encourage new growers then it could go some way to be more welcoming. I think the ‘clique’ out look is something the forum could work on as often topics with many views go without reply and I think considering the high traffic of this forum, the active contribution is fairly low.

Anyway it’s not my intention to step on toes but maybe bring a fresh view to the table, even if it does get me more thumbs down.

Edited by 0rmus, 15 June 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[NewComs]

There just isn't a failsafe way to make sure that some people don't take advantage.
Someone could make a new account, reply 30 times on his first day with comments like 'wow, nice plants' in every single topic/post,
leave and come back 30 days later. Those people will get access too, while others will ask questions, reply on questions, share pictures,...
(and I am not trying to annoy anyone, just trying to explain my point of view)

You can't know if people will take advantage in advance, only when it's to late...
Banning them from that particular part of the forum could work,
but then again; who says they won't just make a new account (or even multiple accounts at the same time)  and do it all over again?
Like I've said, I haven't been here for that long, I'm just letting my imagination run wild  

[will9]

New members can still post wat she like to buy i supoose? For example if you look for pinguicula ,ask in the topic for pings how you must grow this or some thing els and mention wat plants you will grow  and wat you looking for ,i am sure some members go answhere on that ,you not need the topics for sell ,let simple know wat you like .
On this way you have whitin no time also the 20 posts you need ,or send a PM to members that post pictures from there collections if you see something that you like ,there are many possibilitys whitout using topics sales and wants,there is match lesser to sell then you are thinking on this.
i have plenty of plants for sales but i not use the forum for sell this ,for this there are other ways ,i have buy plenty plants on the forum but not allways from the topics sales and wants,mostly i buy from internet sellers like CZ ,BCP and others ,there are really very good whit this .For example ,BCP it looks like hes very spendid ,you buy 5 plants for 100 Euro ,but when you received this you can potting up at least 30 plants ,then it s not spendid anymore,after a while you can sell your surplus from this and have back your money,there are more like this ,you only must find them,
cheers Will

Edited by will9, 15 June 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[mobile]

To make things clear, the only reason the probabtionary period was put in place is to stop people from becoming members purely to sell plants, without any contribution to the forum. I would also like to point out that some other forums do not permit the free sale of plants, either charging a commision or banning it all together.

[ada]

I can understand new members frustration at not being able to buy plants,but 30 days is no time at all.When i first started with our beloved hobby you still had to write a letter,if you could find an address of someone who grew them,then wait for a reply if you were lucky!
If you were very lucky you might get a phone number(no mobiles then)but had to ring lots of times to get anyone in.

But i don't think the forum is "cliquey".
Many of the questions posted by new(er)members can be answered by doing a simple search.Many people don't answer these questions because they have been asked so many times before.
The fact is some people just can't be bothered to search or put the effort in and hope someone will do it for them.

I also think the forum and its members are "welcoming" and it has plenty of active content,but even more valuable is all the stored knowledge.
Just search and read it!

I don't wish to put anyone off or offend any newcomers but i feel i must say what i think on this topic.
The new rule is there TO PROTECT new members and if they stay around long enough they will benefit from it and make some damm good friends on here.
ada

[mobile]

I do not think the forum is cliquey at all. In fact, compared to some forums where I am a member, it is positively friendly. I help others where I can  and certainly do not discriminate between new or establish members. When I first joined the forum I was not initially interested in purchasing plants, I was interested in obtaining information on plants I had already acquired and I found the members to be more than welcoming and provided me with all the information I was seeking and more. The intention of a forum is to discuss and debate and not to simply be a convenient place to obtain or sell plants.

[mantrid]

Perhaps a solution would be to split the 'Sales and wants' into two separate forums 'Sales' and 'wants', and give new members access to the 'Wants' but not the 'sales'

[mantrid]

ada, on 15 June 2012 - 16:25 PM, said:

Many of the questions posted by new(er)members can be answered by doing a simple search.Many people don't answer these questions because they have been asked so many times before.
The fact is some people just can't be bothered to search or put the effort in and hope someone will do it for them.

I also think the forum and its members are "welcoming" and it has plenty of active content,but even more valuable is all the stored knowledge.
Just search and read it!

Perhaps mark the posts that deal with commonly asked questions as sticky posts so they float to the begining of each forum

[bugmuncher]

i think that could work mantrid but it would need to be heavily policed as some people could put a wants thread up and state in that thread that they also have this and that for sale

[mantrid]

bugmuncher, on 15 June 2012 - 18:04 PM, said:

i think that could work mantrid but it would need to be heavily policed as some people could put a wants thread up and state in that thread that they also have this and that for sale

They could but they wont get any customers as people wanting plants are not going to be looking in the 'wants' forum. Besides they could do the same now in any of the other forums too.

[mobile]

mantrid, on 15 June 2012 - 18:04 PM, said:

Perhaps mark the posts that deal with commonly asked questions as sticky posts so they float to the begining of each forum

There  are quite a lot of commonly asked questions and I fear that the first  few pages of each forum could become just stickies. Maybe some  experienced members could write a thread containing the most common  questions for a particular genera and this could become a  single sticky.

The forums search facility is actually quite powerful. I wrote a guide on how to use it here: http://www.cpukforum...showtopic=43278.

mantrid, on 15 June 2012 - 18:00 PM, said:

Perhaps  a  solution would be to split the 'Sales and wants' into two  separate  forums 'Sales' and 'wants', and give new members access to the  'Wants'  but not the 'sales'

This would not encourage  new members to participate in the forum. Those who want plants have  plenty of other ways of obtaining them outwith the forum and could  always use the forum to ask questions before buying.

[MalcolmP]

Ian Salter, on 15 June 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

You need to sit in a south facing window and keep wet on hot days.

Hehee, I like it :)
Only one prob. where do I buy some sunshine to go with it,
know any good ForSales ,,,,
ohho ooops,,,

0rmus> yep I do so agree with you and then you said :
"even if it does get me more thumbs down. "
well I'll give you a thumbs up for it :)

I have thought about commenting on this thumbs system quite a few times, and even before joining I had quite a debate with myself.
As a newbie I thought it not my place to comment on trivial but already instituted practices ( ahhem, the Forsale thing is not so trivial and fair game for newbie comment I thought so I did !! )
where was I , oh yes, thumbs,
what a stupid thing ! I am quite capable of deciding whose posts I like or not, dont need to know how many other unknown peeps like or not those posts,
debating with myself before I joined I nearly didnt join because of this silly thumbs business.

Well well, I was going to relax in a darkened room for a couple weeks,
but now look what y'all done, all this noise, fella couldn't snooze :) :)

[mobile]

MalcolmP, on 15 June 2012 - 21:28 PM, said:

I have thought about commenting on this thumbs system quite a few times, and even before joining I had quite a debate with myself.
As a newbie I thought it not my place to comment on trivial but already instituted practices ( ahhem, the Forsale thing is not so trivial and fair game for newbie comment I thought so I did !! )
where was I , oh yes, thumbs,
what a stupid thing ! I am quite capable of deciding whose posts I like or not, dont need to know how many other unknown peeps like or not those posts,
debating with myself before I joined I nearly didnt join because of this silly thumbs business.

Anything else you don't like about the forum?...