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Outdoor sarracenia in England - heat requirements?


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#1 chj93

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:49 PM

Hi everyone,

I have a bunch of S. flavas which I grow outdoors year round. They always manage dormancy just fine, and resume growth each spring. But, the quality of their growth, in particular the pitchers they put out, never 'wow' me and the plants as a whole just look very average when they should be at their prime. The pitchers do form properly, they just aren't very high or massively robust.

They are in the sunniest place in the garden; this spot must receive at least 7/8 hours of direct sun during the summer if the sun was to be shining all day.

I'm wondering if the issue lies in England's cool spring temperatures meaning that by the time the pitchers are ready to open, they are not the size they should be. Do you think giving the plants a boost in my greenhouse from the point they emerge from dormancy will help with pitcher height and robustness, especially considering flavas are (or should be in my case) early season performers?

Thanks for your help.

#2 James O'Neill

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 21:57 PM

Yes, the heat should certainly help...and also they will colour up better in the heat,

#3 chj93

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:03 PM

Yes, the heat should certainly help...and also they will colour up better in the heat,


Thanks for your reply - I think greenhouse it is then. I 've always thought the cool spring temperatures we have here would never serve them too well.

#4 James O'Neill

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:17 PM

I had a similar problem before I got my greenhouse last year....now they're unrecognisable.

#5 chj93

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:22 PM

I had a similar problem before I got my greenhouse last year....now they're unrecognisable.


So do you leave yours to grow in the greenhouse year round, or put them outside once there is a good crop of pitchers so the plants can do their work? Thanks for your help with this.

#6 James O'Neill

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:28 PM

By 'do their work' do you mean catch insects?
I'll leave them in the gh all year. I leave the windows and doors open so insects can get in...but none get out mwah ha ha
Plus when they are inside they are sheltered from the rain...more nectar collects up around their mouth, makes the greenhouse smell sweeter, more insects attracted, no weather damage (hail really does them no favours) and of course the better size and colour for more impressive plants because isn't that what we want.

#7 chj93

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 22:41 PM

By 'do their work' do you mean catch insects?
I'll leave them in the gh all year. I leave the windows and doors open so insects can get in...but none get out mwah ha ha
Plus when they are inside they are sheltered from the rain...more nectar collects up around their mouth, makes the greenhouse smell sweeter, more insects attracted, no weather damage (hail really does them no favours) and of course the better size and colour for more impressive plants because isn't that what we want.


Yes, by 'do their work' I meant catch insects. Interesting info. So on your flavas what is your average pitcher height then?

#8 James O'Neill

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 23:03 PM

I've only been growing for 2 and a bit years and only got the greenhouse late last summer - don't know yet! They're still growing at the moment but so far they are much better than last year.

#9 chj93

 
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Posted 23 April 2012 - 23:13 PM

I've only been growing for 2 and a bit years and only got the greenhouse late last summer - don't know yet! They're still growing at the moment but so far they are much better than last year.


Ok. Thanks for the help.

#10 Alexis

 
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Posted 24 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

Flava, like most species, will grow much much better under glass.

Individual clones will either do reasonably outside, or 'just survive'.

Another flava from a more northerly location in the US might well do a little better, but still not as well as under glass.

#11 Megs

 
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:21 AM

Here in Denmark I grow all my Sarracenias outside, unprotected. One clone is taller than 60 cm. The rest barely reach 50 cm. Its not the most northern strains that grows the best. I think they have much better color outside than in the greenhouse but they never get as tall as in the greenhouse. Its fine by me. The bog as a whole still attracks both visitors and insects and has a pure wow effect :) And I dont have to fight winter fungus among by CPs.

Martin

#12 Mogster

 
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 17:22 PM

I grow these Sarr's outside all year round, they get covered with fleece in winter, that's it. Growth from the Flavas is pretty good, they do better in the greenhouse but it's interesting to see them au naturel.

Posted Image

#13 billynomates666

 
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 13:09 PM

Hi

Like megs I grow all or most (95%) of my plants outdoors, they grow every year with a minimal amount of attention, but as said earlier in the thread they are not as early, nor perhaps as colourful as greenhouse plants. For instance my flower spikes outside are currently 4-5" high and some are making pitchers, whereas the greenhouse boys have plants in flower and new pitchers open already, so about a month ahead. Also as commented earlier the less cold tolerant plants such as leucos do not get to be their best, but they are still great.

@ mogster I love to see them in the same way, but please tell me that the picture is from last year or I will turn green with envy!!

Cheers
Steve

#14 Amar

 
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 13:30 PM

Check the address of the picture: http://i834.photobuc...08_07_01106.jpg
could be a 4 year old picture, no worries. ;)

#15 Megs

 
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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:22 AM

There is no growth in mine yet, only a few flowerbuds among my SPP plants. They wont grow until May. We are not pass the last frost here yet. Only CPs growing now are the Pings and some of the sundews.

Martin

#16 chj93

 
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Posted 03 May 2012 - 18:25 PM

Thanks for your replies - some useful info here.

#17 Richard Bunn

 
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Posted 03 May 2012 - 19:34 PM

I grow all of mine outside here in Ireland. Have had a mild winter for once so I left the Dionaea and S. leucophylla's out. Things are very slow to get going this year though, particularly the VFT's. Things do 'ok' outside but the trouble is the wind absolutely destroys them. Each year I try to protect them and each year I lose the fight. Last year, the new B&Q coldframes I bought to put the VFT's in didn't make it through the first gale and they landed on the Sarracenias wrecking all the early pitchers. I've just bought a greenhouse but am waiting for the weather, and man power, to put it up. Forking out €400 for it is worth it just to finally have good looking plants (although they'll be better next year).

#18 chj93

 
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Posted 04 May 2012 - 19:40 PM

I grow all of mine outside here in Ireland. Have had a mild winter for once so I left the Dionaea and S. leucophylla's out. Things are very slow to get going this year though, particularly the VFT's. Things do 'ok' outside but the trouble is the wind absolutely destroys them. Each year I try to protect them and each year I lose the fight. Last year, the new B&Q coldframes I bought to put the VFT's in didn't make it through the first gale and they landed on the Sarracenias wrecking all the early pitchers. I've just bought a greenhouse but am waiting for the weather, and man power, to put it up. Forking out €400 for it is worth it just to finally have good looking plants (although they'll be better next year).


Yeah, the trouble is the cool springs I find. By the time my flavas have got moving it's nearly time for them to start dying back as species such as the flavas and oreophilas are early season growers.

#19 Mogster

 
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Posted 12 May 2012 - 15:18 PM

@ mogster I love to see them in the same way, but please tell me that the picture is from last year or I will turn green with envy!!

Cheers
Steve


Yeah the pics from last year, only flowers so far this spring.

#20 Kiwi Earl

 
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Posted 13 May 2012 - 22:04 PM

Hi chj93

If you can establish an outdoor section of your collection you will be rewarded. Choose the site carefully, give them what they need and an outdoor display can look terrific, and you get to see the plants as part of the ecosystem and observe the way they adapt to environmental conditions such as wind, photoperiods etc. And they do too - they become really tough and resilient. Sure, wind and other agents can be challenging but that is part of the interest. If you give the plants time to adjust to the local conditions over several seasons you'll be surprised how cool they can look. And seeing the spectrum of insects interacting with them is really interesting. When it comes to colours, it is my contention that under good sunlight the colours of plants grown outdoors are normal colours whereas those grown in greenhouses, particularly plastic, are, while wonderful in their own right, somewhat unnatural. Here are some pics of mine. You can see the wire necessary to deal with the possibility of severe wind - in the last photo you can see sometimes in my location sometimes there is some suffering to endure (man that's ugly!).....

Posted Image

Posted Image

Winter phyllodia
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Posted Image

Among many others, meizwang on CPUK is an outdoor grower with a splendid collection. While he and I may live in temperate zones which might be a little warmer (Spring lows around 0°C at my place) than where you are, there are some outdoor growers who live with extremely cold winters who have stunning collections. With a good understanding of local conditions they are able to manage to have their Sarracenia outdoor all year round, including under many feet of snow. Possibly the most successful of these growers is Carl Mazur from Canada. Checkout Carl's blog which is full of his tips on the subject Carl: Zone 6b For anyone seeking insights on outdoor growing under cold conditions it's well worth looking back through Carl's posts.

Good luck!

Edited by Kiwi Earl, 13 May 2012 - 22:46 PM.