36 replies to this topic

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Hello again,

I found an interesting option by Ecoxotic:

http://www.ecoxotic....ps-24-watt.html

They have 48" 24W LED strips for $99 each, with several combinations of white, blue & magenta. Looking at their color chart (http://www.ecoxotic...._chipGraphs.pdf), it seems like a mixed blue/ magenta strip would cover all the good wavelengths for plants, closer to the chlorophyll absorption peaks mentioned by Adam (cca 430, 450, 630 and 660 nm).

Looking at page 4 of the Ecoxotic Stunner light manual (http://www.drsfoster...StripManual.pdf ), it seems that I can attach two of these 48" 24W strips to a single power supply. The power supply is $36.95 and a 2-way splitter is $7.95 (http://www.ecoxotic....ccessories.html ).

I noticed that Ecoxotic also offers reflectors to "double the light output" which are not very expensive and may be worth it. However I don't know if these reflectors address the possible spotlight effect commonly mentioned for LEDs, or possibly even make it worse. Anybody know?

So if I was to buy 2 Ecoxotic 48" Stunner LEDs strips (blue/magenta), 8 Ecoxotic 12" Stunner reflectors, + the transformer and 2-way splitter, I'm looking at an investment of $261.55 + tax & shipment (if I bought it from their website - I have seen the same items slightly cheaper on other websites).

Argh! Not as cheap as I was hoping, but I guess I just have to convince myself that it'll save me money in the long run on electricity bills and not having to switch out bulbs once a year.

Anyway, I appreciate any suggestions/correction to what I wrote above, before I make a decision...

Although I think I will end up going with the option above due to price, I did find another very interesting option:

http://sunlightsuppl...-led-tubes.aspx

I like how the LEDs are made into a T8 tube that can be put on a T8 fixture (although only their model it seems, not any T8 fixture). And there are even mixed fixtures for LEDs and T5s.

Has anybody tried these?


Thanks,
Fernando Rivadavia

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia, 07 June 2012 - 18:21 PM.

[Dicon]

Hi Fernando
The two main  $ savings from the use of LED's, are power consumption and long life of the units.
I do not think that these items will survive anywhere near the 50000hrs quoted.
they appear to use out-dated cheap chips and they just will not last unless sufficient heat sinks and high grade power supplies are used.

I think for the money, you could do better.

Search black star on ebay, then look at their full range to find one that suits. These seem to be quite good and readily available.
I do not use these lamps as I have had a custom lamp made, but this would be one of my top choices from the mainsteram market.
They seem reasonably priced too.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Dicon, are you referring to the Ecoxotic and/or AgroLED? What do you mean by "cheap chips"?

As for heat sinks, do you think they are needed considering these are long strips/ tubes? Where would they even be placed relative to the LEDs? And from what I understand, a heat sink would increase the life of LEDs?

Also, do you think the power supply affects the life of LEDs? And do you not think the 24V 60 Watt Transformer (offered here: http://www.ecoxotic....ccessories.html) is good enough?

Sorry for all the questions and overall ignorance of electronics, but thanks for your help! :)

Fernando


P.S. Just found the answer to one question above on Wikipedia:

"Light emitting diode (LED) performance and lifetime are strong functions of their temperature.  Effective cooling is therefore essential."


P.P.S.  This brings up something else that I was already considering... Air circulation. I'd read somewhere that this may be important for the plants, and now it sounds like fans would also help increase the life of the LEDs. This project keeps getting more and more complex....

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia, 07 June 2012 - 19:41 PM.

[Dicon]

I think  you should buy something that is self contained with its own heat sink, power supply and fan all in one unit.
one that is for horticultural use not fish tanks.

This is a fairly complicated subject and I simply do not wish to copy others info.
I have spent many, many hours looking into this subject and comparing different models, I surely have not seen them all but stand by the recommendation above, these should be capable lights and are fairly priced.

This is all I wish to offer but if you want to research it all yourself, then you might start with blackstar (gotham hydroponics) watch their video's and read all they have to say. Then compare any others you find and decide if they are better or worse.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Hello Dicon,

I looked up Blackstar, but they do not seem to have any kind of long fixture, only square/rectangular panels. I'd have to buy several of them to cover my >100" of Ping wall. Considering that the 20" long panel is $939(!!!), buying four (or even one) of these is a definite no-go.

So if you're truly (and sadly) not willing to share more of your lighting knowledge with us on this forum (and if nobody else has anything to add), then it seems like my research is done. Ecoxotic LEDs it is!! I've already spent countless hours trolling eBay, Amazon, hydroponics websites and stores and have not found any other LED option in long strips/fixtures for reasonable prices, so time to end this and just go ahead and order.

I'll just have to hope that two Ecoxotic blue/magenta 48" strips will be a nice complement to the natural light coming through the window, giving my Pings the extra lighting boost they need. I also hope these LEDs are bright enough to cover the whole wall top to bottom, once I attach them to the ceiling. Regarding the heat sink, maybe the long narrow strip format doesn't require as much cooling as a square/rectangular panel, so maybe LED life will not be affected (although a fan could be added if it gets hot). Fingers crossed...

Thanks to those who helped and look for updates on my Ping wall topic: http://www.cpukforum...pic=17560&st=60


Best wishes,
Fernando

[Zlatokrt]

Fernando, i checked your post from yesterday and i think, that this choice is quite good. The spectral distribution of light fits quite nicely to the absorption of plants, so in this point, it seems to be really good.
But Dicon mentioned heatsinks correctly - these power LEDs produce more heat than average small LEDs and a heatsink really prolongs their life. I have all of my power leds attached to an aluminium profiles, which serve as a heatsinks. But i see their led stripes mounted on some sort of black "thing" which, if it is metal, can work as a heatsink too. You might try to contact them (Ecotoxic) and ask about this. Or, aluminium profiles can be bought in every larger DIY shop here in Czech, i think it will be similar in California too, so you can add them later.
The power sources should be good, when they are sold together. I usually buy the cheapest ones for my leds and it works well too.
About the reflector...i am not sure, whether it is good or not. It is really good when using light bulbs, but for leds? I have never used any reflector for a led, i think it is not worth of the price.

BTW: those AgroLED tubes are really interesting, but they would be more difficult to attach to your wall.

Good luck!
Adam

[manders]

Fernando, Many of the LEDs sold for horticulture are really designed to grow marijuana, many of the colour LEDs included are designed to either increase THC yield or promote early flowering.  They are therefore not only expensive but not actually as efficient as they could be.  Given the shape of fitting that you are looking for, it may be far simpler to go for T5 flourescents.

[mobile]

Flourescent tubes would appear to meet your requirement for a strip light. If it's energy efficiency that you are seeking, then you might want to do some calculation on the price difference between LED and flourescent fittings and work out how long it would take to break-even on the cost of electricity.

[0rmus]

I know this probably isn't what you want to hear but in my opinion you would get better results for cheaper using fluorescents. The long tubes sound ideal for lighting your space. The high cost and often less than optimum wavelength of the LED rigs makes it just not worth it. You can get some low wattage ones cheap but the low lumen output again makes them a struggle to be 'worth it' as you would need many to light a decent space well. I think you would really struggle to save anything for your purpose until the price comes down.

With LEDs its a pretty costly investment which only makes a saving if you were switching from say 1000W HPS to 2x 300W LED pannel instead. Then eventually with the saving in electricity, bulbs and a potential for increased yeild, one might justify the high cost. Outside the use of cannabis growing, LED grow lights are mainly a fad, used by keen hobbiest who don't mind paying the extra and people who have managed to pick one up or make one on the cheap.

That said, those LED strips look pretty versatile and I bet it would be a cool, fun and rewarding project to light your plants with them.

Good luck.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Thanks guys!!

Adam, let me see if I understood correctly. You're saying that if I attach one of these aluminum profiles to the back side of my LED strips, it should help keep them cool (and thus extend their life)?

Do you think this is really necessary for LED strips (versus panels)? It seems like in a strip they wouldn't be as crowded and thus hopefully heat won't accumulate as much.

Anyway, I'll try to find out from Ecoxotic what these LEDs are mounted on and if they sell anything like an aluminum profile that can act as a heat sink.

As for the reflector, the LED fixture I have for my aquarium has reflectors which seem to help distribute the light over a wider angle, thus reducing the spotlight effect of LEDs.

And regarding the AgroLED tubes, they do look great indeed, but apparently only fit on their T8 fixture. So if I was to buy two fixtures and a minimum of four tubes, the overall price would be pretty high...

Everyone else: Yes, maybe T5s would be enough, since I already have some light coming through the window. I could maybe leave them on only for a few hours a day and give my Pings what they need without using too much electricity.

However... I've decided to move forward and buy the Ecoxotic LEDs anyway. It'll be a fun experiment, and I'll be happy to share results with everyone here. After all, this is what forums are for, right Dicon? :)  Worst comes to worst, if my Pings look etiolated, I can add fluorescent lights and sell the LED strips on eBay. :)


Thanks to everyone!

Fernando


BTW, as far as I can tell from my visits to their websites and shops, cannabis growers do not like LEDs because of the short penetration of light, which doesn't fit well with stemmed plants. At one shop I was even offered a big discount on some LED panels because none of the cannabis growers were liking it. But for rosetted CPs this is probably not an issue.

[0rmus]

Fernando Rivadavia, on 08 June 2012 - 16:04 PM, said:

BTW, as far as I can tell from my visits to their websites and shops, cannabis growers do not like LEDs because of the short penetration of light, which doesn't fit well with stemmed plants. At one shop I was even offered a big discount on some LED panels because none of the cannabis growers were liking it. But for rosetted CPs this is probably not an issue.

The awesome crazy guy who sold me mine so cheap said he had it 2 months and that it’s been collecting dust since because he preferred HPS. I think the newer pannels with 3W LEDs at about 300W would produce nice results with fruiting crops though.

[Zlatokrt]

Fernando Rivadavia, on 08 June 2012 - 16:04 PM, said:

Thanks guys!!

Adam, let me see if I understood correctly. You're saying that if I attach one of these aluminum profiles to the back side of my LED strips, it should help keep them cool (and thus extend their life)?

Do you think this is really necessary for LED strips (versus panels)? It seems like in a strip they wouldn't be as crowded and thus hopefully heat won't accumulate as much.

Anyway, I'll try to find out from Ecoxotic what these LEDs are mounted on and if they sell anything like an aluminum profile that can act as a heat sink.

As for the reflector, the LED fixture I have for my aquarium has reflectors which seem to help distribute the light over a wider angle, thus reducing the spotlight effect of LEDs.

Yes, exactly.
I am not sure, how about your strips, but i use strips with 36 W/m and they definitelly need it. But my strips are made to be mounted on something and it is easy. If yours are moundet on something which does not conduct warmth (e. g. some sort of plastic) then the aluminium would be useles. It is the best choice to ask them about it.
Otherwise you can buy the strips and test them. It is not sure, that they get really hot and maybe the aluminium profile would be useles.

About the reflector - thanks for the tip. I think i will need something to reduce the spotlight effect in my new project (inspired by your questions about LEDs...)
Regards
Adam

[Dicon]

Fernando
Please do not suggest that I am holding back on the sharing of info, I am active on the forums when I have something worthwhile to say or share and what I offer is freely given, usually well considered and taken from logical deduction and/or first hand experience.

I do not grow Pings, I do not grow plants of any kind in the manner that you have enquired.

I have and do use LED's as supplemental light.

I have spent many hours updating my knowledge, and gotham hydro (among others) in my opinion offer sensible balanced advice and information.
This info is readily available to you or anyone wishing to study it. For me to spell it all out here would take me weeks!

All this information can be used to guide you to your specific requirements, I don't know what they are.

I confess that I did not previously look at your link to the pictures of your "ping wall", but then I did not offer specific advice, just useful general advice.

I can see why you are drawn to the long thin strips you like, but I believe that the only only fitting aspect of their design is that they are long and thin.
So you need a long thin light source that is cheap, efficient and effective.

Sounds like you need a flourescent tube to me! (specific advice)

The other option would be a concentrated lamp and a light mover, however, I think this would look unsightly in your room.

In closing, the new generation 3w chipsets are the way forward in LED's, and make the older LED's look rubbish (which they were)

I have used them and they are very weak and DO NOT LAST.

If you have specific questions, I will try to help further.

A custom made long strip to suit is possible but may cost more than I think you would wish to spend (approx $550 -$600 delivered)

Edited by Dicon, 08 June 2012 - 20:59 PM.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Thanks again for the extra info guys, and sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote above Dicon.

Ecoxotic lights should be here next week, so follow the Ping wall thread to find out if they're going to work or not! ;)


Best Wishes,
Fernando

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia, 09 June 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[pmatil]

My cephas like the White LED spotlights (6000 K). So I guess there is enough useful wavelengths...

[Fernando Rivadavia]

I got the lights yesterday!!! They look pretty bright too. Now I gotta find out how to hang them up on the ceiling. I'll post more pics later, when it's set up.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Updated!

http://www.cpukforum...70