30 replies to this topic

[prized]

Amar, on 20 February 2012 - 23:25 PM, said:

Sorry, it's late, still a bit confused.
If you are asking why sending flowers of artificially propagated plants is permitted and on the other hand sending flowers of wild plants is not, then I guess it is because: If you cut off the gonads of the wild growing plants, then they cannot propagate in the wild anymore.

You're right Amar, it's late  
That's not my question... I don't understand why FLOWERS of artificially propagated plants is permitted while sending artificially propagated plants NOT. I guess it is for a reason of pests, disease or insects, but in my opinion what we can find on a plant, we can also find on a flower. Or not? (for example aphids or red spiders too, they are really small).

[Amar]

mhh, yeah, don't really know, but I just had an idea.
It is allowed to send flowers of artificially propagated plants. So, it is permitted to send flowers of Dionaea, if grown artificially. You pointed out what artificially-grown means, it's what we all do, that is how we grow our plants. Now, we all know that Dionaea can be grown from flower-stalks, and no discussion here, it is forbidden to send flower-stalks. But, I wonder, and I have never tried, and I doubt it could work...: growing VFTs from flowers?

[prized]

Amar, on 20 February 2012 - 23:41 PM, said:

mhh, yeah, don't really know, but I just had an idea.
It is allowed to send flowers of artificially propagated plants. So, it is permitted to send flowers of Dionaea, if grown artificially. You pointed out what artificially-grown means, it's what we all do, that is how we grow our plants. Now, we all know that Dionaea can be grown from flower-stalks, and no discussion here, it is forbidden to send flower-stalks. But, I wonder, and I have never tried, and I doubt it could work...: growing VFTs from flowers?

So it means just the flower, and not the stalk too?!
As far as I know, tissue culture could be made starting from petals (for Dionaeas, for other plants I don't know)..

[Amar]

Well, that's what it says in #4, all plant-parts may NOT be sent, except seeds (any seeds) and flowers of artificially propagated plants.


Hmmmm...the question is, if it is forbidden to send the flower-stalk (peduncle), is it nonetheless ok to send the flower attached to the pedicel? lol

here some pictures to illustrate:
http://content.answc...eners/f0186.jpg

and specifically on a vft:
http://us.123rf.com/...-flytrap-pl.jpg

Now, if we want to be very compulsive about it...is the pedicel part of the flower-stalk (= peduncle), or not?
Time for bed, enough nonsense.

[meizwang]

CITES and other regulations are absolutely necessary for the sale of imperiled/endangered plants, as we don't want people ripping plants out of the wild unsustainably and destroying wild populations.  Additional regulations are also necessary as  we don't want to inadvertently spread invasive weeds and diseases throughout the world.

However, if you want to import or sell legitimately propagated nursery stock overseas,  it's incredibly difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get a permit.    For example, here in the US, it can take up to 8 months of jumping through hoops just to get an export permit-absolutely ridiculous!    Perhaps more energy should be put into making the process faster and easier with less cost.  

Ironically, if I wanted to buy a parcel of land in Florida filled with 10's of thousands of S. leucophylla and bulldoze the whole thing, I can do that in a heartbeat.  I can legally destroy every last plant in that field.  In fact, this is happening as we speak-there is a parcel that is being developed in 2012.  Fortunately, fellow CP conservationists are trying to dig up as many plants as they can before the site is destroyed.

Edited by meizwang, 21 February 2012 - 19:23 PM.

[ada]

Yuri, i believe this is the reason Stephen is trying? to propagate "eden black" in vitro.To comply with all the legislation so it can go global easily without restriction
Even though his original, is seed grown by him(artificially propagated)he can still only send it around europe as cuttings which are grown by him,again artificially propagated but still don't comply with the regs.
ada

[Mike King]

Any plants, whether in vitro or not, if listed under CITES annex I or II need to travel with permits if going out of Europe.

I agree with Mike Wang; the hoops one needs to jump through seem to kill off international trade which is not what CITES is about. It ishould be just a monitoring of international trade and nothing more!

[manders]

Mike is that an EU rule? its quite common to buy orchids in flasks in airports (bangkok for example) as they are exempt from cites.

[Mike King]

manders, on 22 February 2012 - 20:56 PM, said:

Mike is that an EU rule? its quite common to buy orchids in flasks in airports (bangkok for example) as they are exempt from cites.

I think it is an international rule. It also depends if the orchids are listed under CITES which are being sold and if the country in question is signed up to CITES.

[prized]

meizwang, on 21 February 2012 - 19:20 PM, said:

Ironically, if I wanted to buy a parcel of land in Florida filled with 10's of thousands of S. leucophylla and bulldoze the whole thing, I can do that in a heartbeat.  I can legally destroy every last plant in that field.  In fact, this is happening as we speak-there is a parcel that is being developed in 2012.  Fortunately, fellow CP conservationists are trying to dig up as many plants as they can before the site is destroyed.

That's absolutely an important point to think about! Endangered plants are protected from people who wants to get few of them, but not from who wants to destroy entire areas where those plants lives.....as usual, money prevails against common sense..

[manders]

Mike King, on 22 February 2012 - 23:31 PM, said:

I think it is an international rule. It also depends if the orchids are listed under CITES which are being sold and if the country in question is signed up to CITES.

Mike, all orchids are either appendix i or ii and thailand is definately a cites signatory, also malaysiana tropicals used to export in-vitro nepenthes to the uk without cites.  #4 also says in-vitro plants are exempt?  I can understand you might need a phytosanitary cert but are you sure about cites?