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Easy Utricularia from section Orchioides


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#1 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 17:22 PM

Hi! I've been grownig 3 epiphytic Utricularia in this winter, U. reniformis and near to flowering U. alpina and U. nephrophylla from Serra dos Orgaos, Brazil. They grow in a open terraria with no front wall but humidity is a bit higher than in room about 50-60%. Terraria is lighted with 15W plant ESL. Temperature in the terraria is 22-24*C all the time.

After successfully grown these plants I'm willing to buy more Utrics from this amazing section. Problem is that I'm not sure of any other plants that could servive these condition and that's why I'm asking your help.

Plants that I'm pretty sure about buying are U. nelumbifolia, U. 'Nüdlinger Flair'(U. alpina x humboldtii) and U. humboldtii.

Plants that I'd like to buy but I'm unsure if they can handle the conditions in my terraria are
U. alpina x campbelliana
U. alpina x endresii
U. asplundii
U. geminiloba
U. humboldtii x quelchii
U. jamesoniana (Represa el Penol, Antioquia, Colombia or Canon del Diablo, Auyan Tepui, Venezuela)
U. 'Jitka'(U. praetermissa x quelchii)

Are these plants that I'm going to get able to survive in the current conditions that I have in my terraria? Which plants with location data are most forgiving in cultivation?

Edited by Deadly Weapon, 12 February 2012 - 17:22 PM.


#2 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 17:38 PM

geminiloba is very easy

#3 Daniel O.

 
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 19:42 PM

Yes, U. geminiloba is indeed a very easy grower.

U. asplundii is also an easy grower. I grow it under 3 different conditions, in my highland terrarium, my intermediate terrarium and in open trays. It seems to like all of them and the plants flower from time to time but my night temperatures are lower than yours.
I do not grow all these hybrids but normally hybrids are more easy than the parents.

About U. jamesoniana, i grow 2 different forms of this Utricularia, both of them are in flower at the moment and i must say that it´s much better if the temperatures at night are much lower than yours.
I grow my two forms in pots but if you want to grow them on bark you will have to increase the humidity.

About the the lights, 15W is not a lot, what is the distance to the lights?
I give them much more.

Best regards,

Daniel

Edited by Daniel O., 12 February 2012 - 20:24 PM.

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#4 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 21:31 PM

Thanks for help. Distance from light is about 20 cm and my current Utrics seem to like it. Lamp emits purple light which seems to be the reason why the above-mentioned plants are growing flowerstalks.

How low should the night temperatures be to fulfill the requirements of U. asplundii and U. jamesoniana?

#5 Daniel O.

 
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Posted 13 February 2012 - 00:22 AM

As already mentioned U. asplundii does not really have any problems with higher temperatures but U. jamesoniana is a highland plant which requires a real night drop.
In the moment my temperatures at night are about 10-14 degree and they really like it.

Best regards,

Daniel

#6 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:57 PM

http://www.bestcarnivorousplants.net/ site is down now But I remember that they sold U. jamesoniana from Canon del Diablo, Auyan Tepui, Venezuela and claimed it to be from 1500m above sea level when U. jamesoniana from Represa el Penol, Antioquia, Colombia was from 2000m above sea level. Doesn't this make the Canon del Diablo form of this plants more warm adaptable than plants from Represa el Penol?

Has anyone got experience growing U. alpina x campbelliana, U. alpina x endresii, U. humboldtii x quelchii or U. 'Jitka'(U. praetermissa x quelchii) in room conditions?

Edited by Deadly Weapon, 13 February 2012 - 16:03 PM.


#7 Dave Evans

 
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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:05 AM

http://www.bestcarnivorousplants.net/ site is down now But I remember that they sold U. jamesoniana from Canon del Diablo, Auyan Tepui, Venezuela and claimed it to be from 1500m above sea level when U. jamesoniana from Represa el Penol, Antioquia, Colombia was from 2000m above sea level. Doesn't this make the Canon del Diablo form of this plants more warm adaptable than plants from Represa el Penol?

Probably not.

#8 Martin Hingst

 
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Posted 15 February 2012 - 20:07 PM

Hello,

my suggestion for your conditions would be alpina x campbelliana. More temperature tolerant, and quite floriferous.

I would doubt that there are any "easy" species in that section - at least under your conditions. Warm nights, no dropdown in temperature, would be a problem for most of them. The hybrids are a better choice, or the lowland forms of e.g. alpina or asplundii.

And - any species is easy, if you meet its requirements, or difficult if not. Sounds trivial, but is important if you want a plant that looks healthy and should flower some day.

So - try to get plants with location data that come from a lower altitude (e.g. 500m, there are some). Otherwise, I doubt you will have any good success. Will be difficult enough with these night temperatures.

Regards

Martin

#9 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 15 February 2012 - 21:29 PM

Thanks for tips. I just made some new measurements and the real temps in my terraria at the moment are from 19.3*C to 22.6*C. Right now my current epiphytic Utricularia grow quite well in my terraria but I have a plan to make a terraria designed only for Orchioides Utricularia that includes some kind of energy efficient cooling system during summer. But not sure how to make out the cooling system yet. The two choises are either refridgerator (or its guts) or an evaporative cooling.

From what location do the most heat tolerant U. asplundii come?

#10 Martin Hingst

 
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Posted 15 February 2012 - 21:51 PM

From what location do the most heat tolerant U. asplundii come?


I'd try the 'Duida' clone - though it may be a hybrid with jamesoniana. Quite forgiving.

#11 Sebulon

 
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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

Remember Deadly Weapon, that when summer comes here in Finland, the heat goes up way too much for most of the Orchidioides section utrics to really grow well. Before I built my highland terrarium, all my orchidioides went into some sort of dormancy during summer. They killed most of their leaves and the ones that remained we're yellow and not healthy looking. And surprise surprise, when the weather cooled down at autumn, they came back from the roots & tubers and started growing really nice. They always followed the same cycle and after getting the leaf growth going, they started flowering somewhere between november-march when the weather is at it's coolest, aka room-temp at night in my growroom got to as low as 16-18 when I turned my heat radiators for that room off. Day temps we're something like 20. And once again, when spring/summer came most of them died back, except like U.nelumbifolia, U.reniformis and U.alpina. With this setup, I was able to flower U.alpina pretty well, U.nelumbifolia grew one flowerscape with 3 flowers and U. alpina x campbelliana gave me a single flower on a single stalk. Let's compare to my new highland setup.

When I built my highland terrarium (It's basically a fridge compressor that has been torn out and put into a terrarium.), I set the night temps to 15 and day temp to 22. To my experience, this is good "all-around" temp for highland utrics. I didn't want to make it a straight 12 at night, as I felt it was too radical change from before. I have all my orchidioides in the same tank, so I wanted to set the temp for an average value, as some might prefer it warmer (like U.alpina), and some prefer it colder (like U.quelchii).

Okay, the setup was built last spring. The first results were shown this autumn, when U.alpina x campbelliana gave me this:
Posted Image
Those are from 2 flowerscapes.

At about the same time, U.alpina 'Pittier Moon' gave me it's first flower:
Posted Image
Also, U.alpina flowered somewhere during autumn. It seems to like the temps a tad warmer than the others, as it flowers either much earlier or much later than the rest of them.

Right now, I have U.nelumbifolia growing 2 flowerscapes, U.alpina x campbelliana growing 4 flowerscapes, U.asplundii has 2 flowerscapes, my own hybrids of U.nelumbifolia x nephrophylla "white flower" are currently growing 3 flowerscapes. As you can see, this time of the year is when most of them flower.

U.praetermissa is still a mystery for me. It's still a baby, but it had 2 quite large leaves this winter. Now they all seem to be withering away, I think it's entering a dormancy. I have very little experience with this species, so I hope it comes back some day. :ermm: I don't really know if it would prefer warmer or cooler, the leaves seem to have a tint of yellow in my care, but it might be of too powerful lighting or too low humidity at times.

In my opinion, the easiest species are definitely:

1) U.alpina. It likes it a tad warmer temps, so it doesn't necessarily need a highland setup if you have the terrarium in a room that doesn't get too much direct sunlight during summer.

2) U.nelumbifolia (U.humboldtii). It grows literally in every possible soil mix, from pure sphagnum to sand & peat (although not recommended), and it doesn't care if you grow it submerged or terrestrially or whatever way you think of. In my opinion it grows best with the soil really wet, it loves flooded soil. The only true requirement is high humidity, if the humidity is too low it doesn't grow leaves (or they are very unhealthy yellow) and instead starts growing runners. Runners, all over the tank. It's the most weedy CP I can think of. Not even U.calycifida with it's damn seeds compares. I don't grow U. humboldtii, but I've read it's almost identical in care. If someone has some spare U.humboldtii, please contact me. :hi:

3) U. alpina x campbelliana. So easy for me, flowers more than U.alpina in my highland setup. Free flowering, but the most flowers occur during january-march. Doesn't seem to be too picky about temperatures, but if it gets too much over 20, it seems to wither most of the leaves. So it needs some sort of cooling during summer. In my opinion not as picky about humidity as U.asplundii for example, but better keep it on the better side of 60%, as they seem to love high humidity nevertheless.

4) U. asplundii. It's hard to come by and seems to be on the more expensive side on CP selling sites. But it's not that hard to grow. No matter what I do to it, it doesn't really care. It's like U.nelumbifolia, as long as you can keep high humidity, it thrives. It doesn't care about temps that much, for me it always flowers during january-march no matter what temps I give it. I have this one pot with one yellow leaf and I'm like "now it's gonna die", then it grows 2 flowerscapes and I'm beaten. :D For me, the best results have come growing it in pure sphagnum, in some sort of mesh pot. It is epiphyte, so I'm not suprised.

5) U.reniformis, U.geminiloba. A little pickier than nelumbifolia, I'm yet to find suitable conditions for them. My clone of U.reniformis absolutely disgusts low humidity, I once took it out of the terrarium during a clean up and the leaves started to shrivel in 10 minutes. It was such a shock, nowadays I mist it like every 3 minutes if I have to transfer it somewhere! It doesn't seem to hate my terrestrial soil mix, bit it doesn't seem to love it either. I used to grow it in similar setup as U. nelumbifolia, in pure sphagnum slurry and a high water level. It grew so thin leaves that they fell over. In peat & sand it's much sturdier, and that's why I prefer it, although it doesn't seem to grow as fast. (read: not as many leaves, but much healthier looking)

U.geminiloba grows well for me. But it's one of the mysterious species too! I grow it in a sort of epiphyte soil mix, but with high water level, just like U.nelumbifolia. It grows a lot of leaves, but the leaves are so small it almost looks like U.nephrophylla. I have no idea if this is because of the temperature (it's almost directly under the cooling plate) or some other reason. Nevertheless, leaves are healthy green and there are a lot of them, so I'm not complaining. Not expecting flowers any day soon though. :yes:

I didn't list U.nephrophylla, but it's very easy too, and I think you already know very much about this species. You can add it as 6) It likes warmer temps, so don't put it in highland setup. I have it in both lowland and highland setups, it grows slower in highland (surprise surprise) and hasn't flowered there for me yet. Lowland ones flower occasionally. Humidity is not really an issue, as long as the soil itself doesn't dry. Moderate/high humidity + high water level + good lighting has given the best results for me. Might do even better if the humidity was higher constantly.

Phew, that took some time to write.

#12 mobile

 
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Posted 17 February 2012 - 13:21 PM

2) U.nelumbifolia (U.humboldtii)[...]The only true requirement is high humidity, if the humidity is too low it doesn't grow leaves (or they are very unhealthy yellow) and instead starts growing runners. Runners, all over the tank. It's the most weedy CP I can think of. Not even U.calycifida with it's damn seeds compares. I don't grow U. humboldtii, but I've read it's almost identical

I can confirm that in my experience U. humboldtii requires high humidity. When I first received mine, I tried to gow it on an open growshelf and the leaves went brown and it didn't produce any new ones. I then transferred it to a vase, with a loose fitting cover and it produced leaves within a few weeks. The room I have it in is typically very cool and the plant is a metre or so away from a 70W metal halide lamp.

#13 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 17 February 2012 - 13:44 PM

I have grown and flowered humboldtii, and found that it preferred warmer temperatures similar to alpina. The best display I have ever seen of this was in a large fish tank terrarium with fluorescent lights, in "normal" room temperatures where it completely filled the tank and grew profusely.

#14 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 17 February 2012 - 13:45 PM

Okay, the setup was built last spring. The first results were shown this autumn, when U.alpina x campbelliana gave me this:
Posted Image
Those are from 2 flowerscapes.



amazing flowers!

#15 Fernando Rivadavia

 
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:29 AM

Congrats for the great growing instructions, I wish I had something like that 20 years ago. :)

But what I really loved about your post were the amazing flowers of U.alpina X campbelliana - what a BEAUTY!!!


Thanks!
Fernando

#16 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 22:43 PM

Thank you Jarkko for your long and helpful reply plus the beautiful photos.

For my plants I also have a backup plan if I can't get the terraria built in time before the summer heat. I have a cool warehouse room that should stay cool in summer but is a bit too far away to grow plants in there permanently. :huh:

My clone of U.reniformis absolutely disgusts low humidity, I once took it out of the terrarium during a clean up and the leaves started to shrivel in 10 minutes. It was such a shock, nowadays I mist it like every 3 minutes if I have to transfer it somewhere!


I'm lucky because my U. reniformis seems to be a bit different clone and if I remember correctly it was some small leaved form. My plant is all the time in already mentioned conditions and it grows rapidly. Maybe If I add a bit more humidity the growth rate would be even more rapid but I'll save that later. Maybe it survives because I keep the water level very high the pot is almost swimming in water :mafia:

After much help I've decided to look for these plants during the summer:
U. alpina x campbelliana
U. alpina x endresii
U. asplundii Duida form
U. geminiloba
U. humboldtii
U. humboldtii x quelchii
U. nelumbifolia
U. 'Nüdlinger Flair'(U. alpina x humboldtii)

I'll save the other Orchoides till I get the terrarium finished.

Thanks for helping me and giving me accurate growing instructions. :tu:

#17 Sebulon

 
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 22:55 PM

Thank you Jarkko for your long and helpful reply plus the beautiful photos.

I'm lucky because my U. reniformis seems to be a bit different clone and if I remember correctly it was some small leaved form. My plant is all the time in already mentioned conditions and it grows rapidly. Maybe If I add a bit more humidity the growth rate would be even more rapid but I'll save that later. Maybe it survives because I keep the water level very high the pot is almost swimming in water :mafia:

No problem. :)

Do you grow it in sphagnum or peat based mixture? Because my plant was also named something like "small leaves" although it didn't have any real form or location data to it. But that's really interesting, I'll have to divide this one and do a similar test as I did with nelumbifolia, aka try it in sphagnum, epiphytic and peat/sand -mixtures. Or maybe get my hands on the large leaved clone, and try it. Reniformis is told to be easy, but it depends so much on the location apparently.

#18 mobile

 
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:50 AM

My clone of U.reniformis absolutely disgusts low humidity, I once took it out of the terrarium during a clean up and the leaves started to shrivel in 10 minutes. It was such a shock, nowadays I mist it like every 3 minutes if I have to transfer it somewhere!

My U. reniformis grows on an open growshelf, the same one as my U. humboldtii. U. humboldtii hated it until I increased its humidity, but U. reniformis is happy at the lower humidity. I grew U. reniformis from seeds received from Stephen, which were germinated on the same growshlf, so its always been subjected to lower humidity levels. I'll try to get a picture later.

#19 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 13:02 PM

My U. reniformis is growing in living sphagnum at the moment and seems to love it. It's always putting up new growth. Amazing how it started as a 4-5cm piece of "root" with two leaves.

Posted Image

Flowerstalk of U. naphrophylla

Posted Image

Flowerstalk of U alpina turning a bit yellowish

Posted Image

#20 mobile

 
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 13:22 PM

U. reniformis:


Posted Image

Posted Image