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Sarracenia removed from the lake district.


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#1 Martin-G

 
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Posted 29 January 2012 - 15:50 PM

Hi folks, Just found this link below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...umbria-16772704

I know this has been discussed at various times on the forum but looks like the National Trust are taking action. From a conservation view i can understand why, just hope they play it smart and sell the plants on to nurseries or individuals. With a bit of foresight they could make a bit of money to put back in to the conservation. What are your thoughts?. Has anyone been involved in the actual removal work, i bet a lot of us wish we had known about it in advance.

#2 manders

 
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Posted 29 January 2012 - 16:43 PM

Its about time they were removed but i could well imagine hundreds of thousands of seeds will be left behind, so in a few years they'll need taking out again, purps are weeds, theyve even pop up in with my strawberries.

#3 Daniel G

 
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    Getting a better Sarracenia collection.
 

Posted 29 January 2012 - 17:20 PM

Next time i'm at the lake district i'll take myself a few hundred home, could get some nice plants...

#4 Mike King

 
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Posted 29 January 2012 - 22:59 PM

I looked for the purps on this site, but they were really out of reach. These were the purps planted by Adrian Slack in the 1960s.

#5 Martin-G

 
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Posted 30 January 2012 - 16:01 PM

If they have been in since the 1960's then it will be a hard job to remove them, even a bit of root and as Manders said all the seed, they will come back time after time. So the national trust need CP fanatics with rafts and dingy's to control them :laugh1:

#6 Deadly Weapon

 
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Posted 30 January 2012 - 19:18 PM

How about adding some S. prittacina and S. leucophylla in there? :)

#7 Alexis

 
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Posted 30 January 2012 - 20:05 PM

They wouldn't last - it's too cold.

#8 johns

 
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Posted 30 January 2012 - 22:52 PM

How about adding some S. prittacina and S. leucophylla in there? :)


Surely one alien species is one too many already. If one wants to see Sarracenia, one can visit North-America or grow them in the garden/greenhouse/window sill.

I have to admit I would enjoy enjoy seeing S. purpurea on a bog anywhere, even if introduced, but I don't think there's any good reason to deliberately introduce alien species in natural habitats.

#9 Daniel G

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:26 AM

Actually, Britons visiting bogs in Britain to see Carnivorous plants would cut down on carbon from the air flights, and car travel....

Saving the enviroment! :sarcastic_hand:

#10 billynomates666

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 13:42 PM

Hi all

Surely one alien species is one too many already. If one wants to see Sarracenia, one can visit North-America or grow them in the garden/greenhouse/window sill.



I've got to agree with that, but I dont see them pulling up pansies, wallflowers, tulips etc etc etc, when does an alien species become acceptable?

Cheers
Steve

#11 Megs

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 16:27 PM

In Denmark many of our so called wild trees are introduced versions of original native species but from other parts of the world.

I know a bog near by with a large population of introduced Spp, S x catesbaei and their hybrids. They are huge and wonderful. Each year I collect a few of the best of them and grow them in my garden.
One day they will be removed. I think that is ok, but I enjoy it while I can still see them there. They are impressive...

Martin

#12 johns

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 17:22 PM

I've got to agree with that, but I dont see them pulling up pansies, wallflowers, tulips etc etc etc, when does an alien species become acceptable?


I don't know. Some species are worse than others (in terms of damage to natural ecosystems), and some have been with us so long they're regarded as natives.

But in this case, to me it seems like it's a easy decision to remove the introduced Sarracenia purpurea. As the article states, they were replacing native plants, including sundews. In addition, if I've understood correctly, there isn't much natural peatland left in England.

#13 BobZ

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 18:58 PM

But in this case, to me it seems like it's a easy decision to remove the introduced Sarracenia purpurea. As the article states, they were replacing native plants, including sundews. In addition, if I've understood correctly, there isn't much natural peatland left in England.

Are there any data to support the National Trust assertion that the Sarracenia "were competing with other native insectivorous species such as the Sundew. This isn't just bad for the insect population, but also the birds which eat the insects - it's not good all round."

This statement attributed to the National Trust seems a bit implausible to me. It could, however, just be bad reporting -- or bad science.

#14 mantrid

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 19:24 PM

Are there any data to support the National Trust assertion that the Sarracenia "were competing with other native insectivorous species such as the Sundew. This isn't just bad for the insect population, but also the birds which eat the insects - it's not good all round."

This statement attributed to the National Trust seems a bit implausible to me. It could, however, just be bad reporting -- or bad science.


They would only have to empty out a Sarracenia to see if the insects in there are the same ones our native spp of sundew take, in order to determine if they are competing. Im sure they would have performed this simple task. I dont see why Sarracenia wouldnt take the same prey, im not aware of them being particularly selective eaters. Also Sarracenia are much larger and greedier than our native sundews so in my opinion there surely is significant competition.

Edited by mantrid, 31 January 2012 - 19:32 PM.


#15 johns

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 20:23 PM

This statement attributed to the National Trust seems a bit implausible to me. It could, however, just be bad reporting -- or bad science.

I just assumed that there must be some good evidence for the statement, but you're right, part of it does sound a little implausible. I can understand that S. purpurea might compete for space with sundews, but it sounds less plausible that it has significant impact on insect numbers. Would be curious to know if anybody is aware of published research about these issues.

#16 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 31 January 2012 - 21:35 PM

I think it's just bad reporting, looking for that catchy soundbite.
To be honest the fact that they are displacing native flora is a good enough reason to remove them

#17 Daniel G

 
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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:05 AM

To be honest i could imagine birds eating out of S. Purpurea...

#18 Megs

 
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Posted 01 February 2012 - 16:28 PM

I think it's just bad reporting, looking for that catchy soundbite.
To be honest the fact that they are displacing native flora is a good enough reason to remove them


I agree here, removal because they are not native are a valid argument alone.

Spp dont compeate with sundews when it comes to what they catch, and in fact on of the bigger problems around here when cultivating Sarrs outside is that some bird learn how to open the pitchers and get a large meal...

Martin

#19 Dave Evans

 
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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:23 AM

I agree here, removal because they are not native are a valid argument alone.


Generally true, but in this I suspect S. purpurea can actually help increase the density of local biodiversity; opposite being an invasive. Sort of like honey bees.
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#20 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 02 February 2012 - 18:56 PM

Generally true, but in this I suspect S. purpurea can actually help increase the density of local biodiversity; opposite being an invasive. Sort of like honey bees.


sorry, no idea what you are talking about