86 replies to this topic

[bodaciousbonsai]

gardenofeden, on 26 December 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

This is a serious question.

I have several plants of 'Eden Black' from cuttings from last year ready to go out to people on the waiting list, all very small about this size (the pot size is 5 cm, so these plants are small!):

Cephalotus Eden Black leaf cutting by gardenofeden67, on Flickr

Previously I have swapped for not very much, or given the plants for free and asked for (anonymous) donations to the CPS conservation fund.  Given the interest in the plants, and the fact that a few have now been resold, it would be silly of me to continue to give them away.  I'm not in it for the money, if I was I would put them all on eBay and scrap the waiting list.  I would like to honour the waiting list, but I would like to set a fair price.So, what do people think is a "fair" price for a potted plant like the one above? I am genuinely interested in people's honest opinions and they will guide me in what I set the price at.

thanksI would easily pay 200-250 usd for a division of that plant. I just bought a Germen Giant from a gentlemen in the usa for 130.00

[31drew31]

bodaciousbonsai, on 02 January 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I would easily pay 200-250 usd for a division. But it sucks living in the usa the plants can not be shipped over seas

Sure they can, its just often too much of a pain for selling hobbyist's to bother getting all the legal documents.

Edited by 31drew31, 02 January 2012 - 17:20 PM.

[mobile]

bodaciousbonsai, on 02 January 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

I would easily pay 200-250 usd for a division. But it sucks living in the usa the plants can not be shipped over seas

The cost of the paperwork would probably take it to somewhere near that price. Problem is there are not many 'Eden Black' around and there is a high demand for them within Europe, where it's far easier than having to go through the rigmarole of paperwork to ship them outside of Europe.

[bodaciousbonsai]

mobile, on 02 January 2012 - 18:48 PM, said:

The cost of the paperwork would probably take it to somewhere near that price. Problem is there are not many 'Eden Black' around and there is a high demand for them within Europe, where it's far easier than having to go through the rigmarole of paperwork to ship them outside of Europe.

The funny thing is. I got my import permits from aphis to be able to accept shipments from ecuagenera which is in peru. They didnt cost me anything. it was all free.Phyto sanitary and citiies are not free though.

[31drew31]

Ecuagenera is a far cry from a "hobbyist". Most import or export permits cost money. Here in Canada I believe it is $100 for an import permit, and is only good for one country and 2 or 3 years. Id assume the export permit is similar.

Also as mobile said, why would the seller bother with exporting, when they have way more people than plants who want it in EU. Even most vendors won't export, as its not worth their time. Only the large vendors will bother with exporting.

There is no doubt, that at one point 'Eden Black' will be available in the US to the general public. Stephen Morley has already been very generous in sending selfed seeds to the US to help get some of the 'Eden Black' genes on this side of the pond.

Edited by 31drew31, 02 January 2012 - 20:40 PM.

[gardenofeden]

I have a small problem with the waiting list, it is quite old now and for most people I only have their CPUK forum IDs. At least 2 people are going to be knocked off the list because they are not replying to PMs that their plants are ready....

[mobile]

Well, if one of them needs a home

[Marcus B]

Stephen, has there been any further progress with getting EB into tissue culture so that they can be sent further a field?

[petesredtraps]

gardenofeden, on 10 January 2012 - 20:08 PM, said:

I have a small problem with the waiting list, it is quite old now and for most people I only have their CPUK forum IDs. At least 2 people are going to be knocked off the list because they are not replying to PMs that their plants are ready....

Well that's their loss, how foolish is that? Maybe some people got on the list for the sake of it.

[mobile]

There are a few members who used to be regulars on here when the list was still open but they have disappeared since. One or two of them used to be prolific posters too. I guess that peoples life priorities change.

[BenScoobert]

has anyone typed eden black in to google images? I'm pretty sure Stephen isn't selling cuttings of her..........

[gardenofeden]

[RL7836]

BenScoobert, on 14 January 2012 - 13:58 PM, said:

has anyone typed eden black in to google images? I'm pretty sure Stephen isn't selling cuttings of her..........

Last year, there was an individual on another forum who insisted that he had an 'EB' in the USA. Someone had duped this poor fool for a bucketload of money. He couldn't believe that he'd been screwed even after Stephen shared that his facts were wrong (the guy he purchased from swore he got them directly from Stephen --- not).

Several years ago, some HG cephs sold on fleabay for $500-600 usd. These high prices bring the slimes out of the woodwork to reap easy money. Many fake HG Cephs floating around now due to slimes grabbing quick profits ....

[mobile]

RL7836, on 15 January 2012 - 15:49 PM, said:

Last year, there was an individual on another forum who insisted that he had an 'EB' in the USA. Someone had duped this poor fool for a bucketload of money. He couldn't believe that he'd been screwed even after Stephen shared that his facts were wrong (the guy he purchased from swore he got them directly from Stephen --- not).

The problem is that the guy was so convinced it was Eden Black that it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't try selling it on to others as such. If it's the guy I'm thinking of then the only saving grace is that he didn't have a clue on how to keep Cephalotus, so it probably died before he had chance to do anything with it.

[Damien]

There are two worries now then...

1. If there are so many 'fakes' around how do we know we're buying the real one when they come up for sale or trade.

2. If there are now seeds in the U.S. as they get passed around over time some people may sell them as the real E.B. instead of bothering to mention they are actually F1 hybrids.

Damien

[mobile]

By true definition I don't think that seeds from selfed plants are F1 hybrids, are they? I've seen this term used for 'Eden Black' seeds on Terraforums.

Quote

Crossing two genetically different plants produces a hybrid seed [...]“F1 hybrid” is usually reserved for agricultural cultivars derived from two different parent cultivar (plant)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid

There is always a risk that any plant might not be what it's supposed to be and the only way of trying to avoiding that is to obtain it from either the originator or from a trusted source who can trace it back to the originator.

[Marcus B]

mobile, on 24 January 2012 - 14:31 PM, said:

By true definition I don't think that seeds from selfed plants are F1 hybrids, are they? I've seen this term used for 'Eden Black' seeds on Terraforums.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid

There is always a risk that any plant might not be what it's supposed to be and the only way of trying to avoiding that is to obtain it from either the originator or from a trusted source who can trace it back to the originator.

Selfed plants do not produce "hybrids" in general terms, but the resulting seed can be termed F1 crosses of EB x EB, which may be different genetically from EB.

The simple fact is that they are very unlikely to be identical to EB.  Some will be more likely to show the colouration of EB than others, as has been demonstrated by the EB-selfed seedlings that I have seen.  One out of about five is showing dark colour and one is showing weird growth, while the others just look like good coloured Cephs.  Differences due to chromosome sorting, multipe alleles and crossover events give various combinations of genes in the ova and pollen.

The only way you could get pure seedlings from selfed seeds is if plants were repeatedly breed back to the parent plant, and this would only be relevent to a particular characteristic that is being breed for.  While we are seemingly only interested in one charactoristic, the colour, cloning is still the only way to get an identical plant.  Selfed seedlings will give rise to (hopefully) multiple good coloured clones that may be more readily available than true EB due to quarrenteen issues.

[gardenofeden]

well the list is decreasing fast, about 80% of people on the list are no longer active on the forum (which is the only contact I have for them), no longer grow CPs etc.

[Daniel G]

If there's room on the list...  

[Amar]

gardenofeden, on 23 February 2012 - 20:48 PM, said:

<br />well the list is decreasing fast, about 80% of people on the list are no longer active on the forum (which is the only contact I have for them), no longer grow CPs etc.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Glad I'm not among the 80 %. :)