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South-African wintergrower questions


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#1 Tonk

 
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Posted 08 December 2011 - 21:13 PM

Hello !

I'm always hungry of CP's knowledges. Perhaps I'll never cultivate these (magnificient) plants, but I would like to know more about them. In fact, I found it hard to find precise informations for these "recents" plants, and I tried to understand by myself how it could work, but there are still many things I would to clarify.

First, does these plants are all "wintergrowers" Drosera, or have I forgot some ? (I made my investigations with CPDataBase and other websites, so I think there is plants which are synonyms, no ?)

DD. acaulis,
afra,
alba,
cistiflora,
ericgreenii,
glabripes,
hilaris,
pauciflora,
ramantacea,
trinervia,
zeyheri


Secondly, can they all be cultivated in the same way ?

In fact, I've got a cellar, so I was thinking about growing them year-round into, under 2*55w "turbo-neon" (don't know how it's called in english but I grow all my tropical plants under that :P) with a period of 3 months during summer, where the soil will be drier, but not completly.
The problem is that the temps will stay between 18°C during day and fall to 13-14°C by night all the time.

The other idea is to cultivate them in the cellar only during growing season (so, from november to late spring if I'm right ?) and leave them outdoor during summer, under shelves to avoid rain and let the pots dry not completly.
Problem is that I think temps will be a little hot for them in middle-summer. It can reach to 40° (rarely, but it can ^^), and as far as I understand, they hate to be exposed at high temperatures.
When autumn will arrive, I could start to water them, so the dormancy period will end, and return the plants to the cellar.


Lasts questions :

==> When do they flower ? At the end of their growing period, or, as tuberous australian sundews, when they start to regrow ?

==> What is the best period to sow seeds ? During the drier season so they germinate in autumn, or directly at the strating of the growing season ?


Best regards

Thomas

#2 mobile

 
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Posted 09 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

[...] 2*55w "turbo-neon" (don't know how it's called in english but I grow all my tropical plants under that :P)

Fluorescent tubes.

#3 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:24 AM

glabripes & ramentacea are NOT winter gowers. D.trinervia can have a rest period, and indeed has a very swollen root for water storage,but I have seen it in full growth in the heat of the summer.

#4 Dave Evans

 
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Posted 10 December 2011 - 23:21 PM

Good question,

Not sure of the answer, but I suspect you can grow most of those species together. They all do not like hot weather, regardless of the season of growth so if you have a highland set up, that is where they'll want to be cultivated.

#5 Tonk

 
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Posted 11 December 2011 - 08:03 AM

Thanks for answers all :)

I'll try to get some seeds next year. In an open highland-terraria, into the cellar, I think it would be nice. Drosera alba and cistiflora are particularly beautiful, so i'll concentrate on them.

#6 Christian

 
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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:20 AM

Hi Stephen,

i think it's too easy to say, that D. glabripes and D. ramentacea are no winter growers. This seems to be at least under my conditions wrong. D. ramentacea regularly dies back in summer for me, as does D. glabripes sometimes. I have already seen D. glabripes in South Africa and this has always been on only the driest places, sometimes next to D. cistiflora. I would bet, that some of the plants do have a summer dormancy.

Christian

#7 amphirion

 
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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:19 PM

hi all, i hope you dont mind me hitching on to this topic at all...

i am currently growing D. hilaris from seed right now, and they are being kept in my heliamphora tank which does not rise any higher than 80F during the summer. I was wondering if these seedlings can be allowed to grow the entire year around for at least their first year/two years before the summer dormancy period sets in?

Edited by amphirion, 15 December 2011 - 23:20 PM.


#8 Sean Spence

 
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 07:20 AM

hi all, i hope you dont mind me hitching on to this topic at all...

i am currently growing D. hilaris from seed right now, and they are being kept in my heliamphora tank which does not rise any higher than 80F during the summer. I was wondering if these seedlings can be allowed to grow the entire year around for at least their first year/two years before the summer dormancy period sets in?



Drosera hilaris will happily grow year round if the temps don't get too high. It is not what I would consider to be a "winter growing" species.

I've grown the species over a number of years and some plants will go dormant in summer but most do not.

What I consider to be the true "winter growing" species are those that will enter a dormant period at some stage in summer no matter what. Species like D. ramentacea, hilaris, glabripes and ericgreenii will happily continue to grow year in year out if conditions suit, forming stems over a period of time.

Other species such as D. cistiflora, alba, zeyheri, pauciflora, afra and trinervia will always go dormant during summer (although Stephen states that he has seen D. trinervia growing throughout summer, I can say that that has never been the case with any of my plants and I've grown a considerable number of different forms).

I guess it is possible to keep some of the "winter growing" species growing throughout summer if you alter the growing conditions to emulate winter-like conditions. Where I live is very similar to the conditions these species encounter in nature and under these "natural" conditions all species behave as I have mentioned above.

#9 Tonk

 
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 08:13 AM

Thank you Sean for this answer. So DD. ramentacea, hilaris, glabripes and ericgreenii may be suitable for an highland terra which never go over 24°C (75°F) ?

#10 amphirion

 
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:52 PM

thank you very much for your advice Sean. duly noted.

#11 Dave Evans

 
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 19:32 PM

Thank you Sean for this answer. So DD. ramentacea, hilaris, glabripes and ericgreenii may be suitable for an highland terra which never go over 24°C (75°F) ?

Hello Tonk,

Make sure your Terrarium doesn't maintain 100% humidity, 80-90% humidity is more than most CP's need and where you'll see optimal growth.

Of course cuttings are a different story :)

#12 Tonk

 
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Posted 16 December 2011 - 21:15 PM

Humidity is between 60 and 75% during the day, but is very high during the night. My Heli's and South-American Drosera seem to like it, but I'd like to reduce humidity at night :/

#13 Dave Evans

 
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:40 AM

Nah, that sounds just about perfect. The humidity is supposed to go up quite high at night--that's where dew/morning mist comes from.

#14 Tonk

 
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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:53 AM

Ok :D
Thank you for reassuring me.

#15 Christian

 
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:04 AM

Hi,

What I consider to be the true "winter growing" species are those that will enter a dormant period at some stage in summer no matter what. Species like D. ramentacea, hilaris, glabripes and ericgreenii will happily continue to grow year in year out if conditions suit, forming stems over a period of time.

ok, so you do have a different defintion than i have. As i am sure, that most of the plants, if not even all, will go dormat in their natural habitat i do consider them to be summer dormant, winter growing plants. They (hilaris, ramentacea, ericgreenii, glabripes) do not died back completely and recover from roots, but there is not much more than a small green point on top of the stems left. It's also true, that you can prevent them going dormant in cultivation if you are a bit lucky and provide winter like south african conditions (which seems to be close to what is often called highland conditions). But i am not sure if that really fits their requirement in long terms. For me i decided to allow them going dormant if they want to, which in my greenhouse happens to almost all plants each year. If that happens, just keep them drier and wait until they start growing again. Those plants are not suited for typical Nepenthes/Heliamphora-Highland-Terrariums all year long if you ask me.

Other species such as D. cistiflora, alba, zeyheri, pauciflora, afra and trinervia will always go dormant during summer (although Stephen states that he has seen D. trinervia growing throughout summer, I can say that that has never been the case with any of my plants and I've grown a considerable number of different forms).

I heard about places in south africa where plants of D. trinervia grow, that do not go dormant. I have seen them myself growing side by side with Drosera aliciae on one of those places. My cultivated plants do all go dormant for a couple of weeks i summer, though.

regards,
Christian

Edited by Christian, 18 December 2011 - 10:07 AM.


#16 Christian

 
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:06 AM

can someone please delet this. thanks!

Edited by Christian, 18 December 2011 - 10:07 AM.


#17 Sean Spence

 
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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:29 AM

I haven't been fortunate enough to grow D. ericgreenii yet, but D. ramentacea and glabripes in particular do not show any signs of a summer dormancy in my conditions. During summer my greenhouse gets quite hot on most days (30 - 40 deg C), certainly nothing approaching what you would call highland conditions (I wish I could provide conditions such as these...).

D. hilaris does form tight dormant buds in summer, but I find that not all plants will do this, even during the hottest of years.

Having said this, I am sure that the summer conditions of these plants in nature are completely different to the conditions that we supply the plants in cultivation. During a hot South African summer, I'm sure that all of the plants that grow in the drier fynbos type environments would all undergo a dormancy of some type.

#18 amphirion

 
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 07:29 AM

thanks both Sean and Christian for your opinions.
my plan for growing hilaris was as follows, grow from seed in my heliamphora/nepenthes tank until they reach 3-4 cm in diameter. once they have been firmly established, i will move them over to my windowsill. recreating a fynbos type environment shouldn't be difficult as i live in a mediterranean climate myself.

#19 Sean Spence

 
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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:50 AM

thanks both Sean and Christian for your opinions.
my plan for growing hilaris was as follows, grow from seed in my heliamphora/nepenthes tank until they reach 3-4 cm in diameter. once they have been firmly established, i will move them over to my windowsill. recreating a fynbos type environment shouldn't be difficult as i live in a mediterranean climate myself.


If the species should grow well anywhere away from South Africa, I reckon San Francisco is the place.