14 replies to this topic

[Sockhom]

Here:
http://carnivorousoc...acenia-and.html

François.

[Alexis]

Thanks for the post - I think a lot of us missed this. A new publication co-authored by Stewart McPherson, Don Schnell, Andreas Wistuba et. al makes it all pretty official to me.

It's about time sarracenia alata was classified (although why atrorubra instead of atropurpurea?)

I'm confused about the mix of names for anthocyanin free plants though?



Heliamphora arenicola; formerly known as "H. nutans from Tramen Tepui";
Heliamphora ceracea, formerly known as "H. neblinae red";
Heliamphora collina, formerly known as "H. sp. Foothill Testigos;
Heliamphora minor var. pilosa, formerly known as "H. minor hairy" (not to be confused with H. pulchella);
Heliamphora parva, formerly known as "H. neblinae var. parva";
Heliamphora purpurascens, formerly known as "H. heterodoxa from Ptari Tepui".

Undiagnosed taxa:

Heliamphora pulchella ‘Incompletely diagnosed taxon from Amurí Tepui’;
Heliamphora sp. ‘Angasima Tepui’, related to H. heterodoxa;
Heliamphora sp. ‘Akopán Tepui’, a gorgeous species with a typical nectar spoon. It's a shame it can't be described yet.



Darlingtonia californica f. viridiflora, anthocyanin free plants.


Sarracenia alata var. atrorubra, all red plants;
Sarracenia alata var. cuprea, copper lid plants;
Sarracenia alata var. nigropurpurea, black purple plants;
Sarracenia alata var. ornata, heavy veined plants;
Sarracenia alata var. rubrioperculata, red throat plants;
Sarracenia alata f. viridescens, antocyanin free plants;

Sarracenia flava f. viridescens, antocyanin free plants; Sarracenia leucophylla var. alba, plants with very white top;
Sarracenia leucophylla f. viridescens, antocyanin free plants;
Sarracenia minor var. minor f. viridescens, antocyanin free plants;


Sarracenia psittacina var. psittacina f. viridescens, normal sized anthocyanin free plants;
Sarracenia psittacina var. okefenokeensis, giant sized plants from Okefenokee swamp;
Sarracenia psittacina var. okefenokeensis f. luteoviridis, giant sized anthocyanin free plants;


Sarracenia purpurea ssp. venosa var. venosa f. pallidiflora, anthocyanin free plants;
Sarracenia rubra ssp. gulfensis f. luteoviridis, anthocyanin free plants;  
Sarracenia rubra ssp. jonesii f. viridescens, anthocyanin free plants.

Sarracenia oreophila var. ornata, heavy veined plants;

Undiagnosed taxon:

Sarracenia rubra ‘Incompletely diagnosed taxon from Georgia and South Carolina’.

[mobile]

Related topic, with a link  to some pictures of the newly catagorised Heliamphora: http://www.cpukforum...showtopic=43939

[osmosis]

I thought Stuart had previously described H.neblinae var parva as the 'real' (i.e. type?) neblinae.

Now it is it's own species, I wonder what is now considered the type

Dave

[Dave Evans]

That's really cool.  For years, I've been wondering how those can be considered the same species, while many folks just say it variation.  I understand there should be variation, but completely different nectar spoons are a good hint they aren't the same thing...

Nice naming scheme for the plants too.

Edited by Dave Evans, 17 October 2011 - 20:27 PM.

[Sockhom]

Here are the botanical illustrations of the new Sarracenia and Darlingtonia forms and varieties:
http://carnivorousoc...ifornica-f.html

Note: I initially forgot to add Sarracenia oreophia var. ornata in my first post. Alexis, you might want to edit your post as well.

All the best,

François.

[Alexis]

Thanks for the link. I've edited my post.

Oreophila var. ornata makes sense.

The anthocyanin free plants are still confusing though!

I also have a psittacina from Okefenokee Swamp which is nicely coloured but not especially large. I assume 'normal' and okefenokeensis forms are present in the area?

[meizwang]

Anyone know what ever happened to Sarracenia montana?  Is it just being left alone, or were there any changes?

[Alexis]

I think the list is just in addition to the existing names.

So purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana remains.

[Sockhom]

Alexis, on 19 October 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

I think the list is just in addition to the existing names.

So purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana remains.

That's correct, Alexis.

François.

[meizwang]

I also heard that S. rosea might be lumped back into a variant of S. purpurea.  Anyone have more information on this, or is it also staying the same for the time being?  In my opinion, I like the name S. rosea because it's alot shorter and easier to write than S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii, but quite frankly, it seems like hocus-pocus that it's not a purpurea...

Another topic of discussion: S. psittacina var. okefenokeensis...there are giant forms of S. psittacina found in calhoune Co, FL, Liberty Co, FL and now a new site in Georgia, outside of the okefenokee swamp.  This new psitt okefenokeensis does not account for  the other giants found in other locations-remember, any species name ending in "ensis" means they are only found in that area.

Edited by meizwang, 19 October 2011 - 17:18 PM.

[Dave Evans]

meizwang, on 19 October 2011 - 17:14 PM, said:

I also heard that S. rosea might be lumped back into a variant of S. purpurea.  Anyone have more information on this, or is it also staying the same for the time being?  In my opinion, I like the name S. rosea because it's alot shorter and easier to write than S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii, but quite frankly, it seems like hocus-pocus that it's not a purpurea...

Another topic of discussion: S. psittacina var. okefenokeensis...there are giant forms of S. psittacina found in calhoune Co, FL, Liberty Co, FL and now a new site in Georgia, outside of the okefenokee swamp.  This new psitt okefenokeensis does not account for  the other giants found in other locations-remember, any species name ending in "ensis" means they are only found in that area.

Well, here is my take on it.  Since the S. purpurea venosa burkii is based on a completely flawed idea (that burkii is part of venosa); the name S. rosea is just much clearer.  I'll glady support the use of a different subspecies name for this taxon as well.

The Okeefenokee bog is much smaller than it used to be.  Just as the are the Everglades.  I'm not sure how far it used to extend though.

Edited by Dave Evans, 19 October 2011 - 22:03 PM.

[meizwang]

Dave Evans, on 19 October 2011 - 22:00 PM, said:

Well, here is my take on it.  Since the S. purpurea venosa burkii is based on a completely flawed idea (that burkii is part of venosa); the name S. rosea is just much clearer.  I'll glady support the use of a different subspecies name for this taxon as well.

The Okeefenokee bog is much smaller than it used to be.  Just as the are the Everglades.  I'm not sure how far it used to extend though.

I think it's tough to say whether or not S. rosea is related to S. purpurea ssp. venosa because there's so much variation in s. rosea.  Take this plant below, for example, found in Okaloosa Co, FL:
  

this one looks more closely related to S. purpurea ssp. venosa in comparison to the S. roseas found in Liberty Co, FL.

[James O'Neill]

François, I like your drawings very much! Very well done.

[Phil Green]

Dave Evans, on 19 October 2011 - 22:00 PM, said:

Well, here is my take on it.  Since the S. purpurea venosa burkii is based on a completely flawed idea (that burkii is part of venosa); the name S. rosea is just much clearer.  I'll glady support the use of a different subspecies name for this taxon as well.

Dave - whilst it could be argued whether burkii is part of venosa or not, to argue it as a seperate species to purpurea, was always HOGWASH ! and laughable. Hopefully that and these other 'new' sarra species recently named can now be put in the trash can, where they belong.

For those who aren't aware of the new names described in Stewarts new book. He has sent them out by email - so I copy them all below

"Below is a complete listing of the spectacular plants that feature in this work:"

Sarraceniaceae of South America

Heliamphora arenicola - described in this work
Heliamphora ceracea - described in this work
Heliamphora chimantensis
Heliamphora ciliata
Heliamphora collina - described in this work
Heliamphora elongata
Heliamphora exappendiculata
Heliamphora folliculata
Heliamphora glabra
Heliamphora heterodoxa
Heliamphora hispida
Heliamphora huberi
Heliamphora ionasi
Heliamphora macdonaldae
Heliamphora minor
    H. minor var. minor
    H. minor var. pilosa
Heliamphora neblinae
Heliamphora nutans
Heliamphora parva - described in this work
Heliamphora pulchella
    H. pulchella ‘Incompletely diagnosed taxon from Amurí Tepui’
Heliamphora purpurascens - described in this work
Heliamphora sarracenioides
Heliamphora tatei
Heliamphora uncinata
Heliamphora sp. ‘Angasima Tepui’
Heliamphora sp. ‘Akopán Tepui’

---------------------------

Sarraceniaceae of North America

Darlingtonia californica
    D. californica f. californica
    D. californica f. viridiflora - described in this work

Sarracenia alata
    S. alata var. alata
    S. alata var. atrorubra - described in this work
    S. alata var. cuprea - described in this work
    S. alata var. nigropurpurea - described in this work
    S. alata var. ornata - described in this work
    S. alata var. rubrioperculata - described in this work
    S. alata f. viridescens - described in this work
Sarracenia flava
    S. flava var. flava
    S. flava var. atropurpurea
    S. flava var. cuprea
    S. flava var. maxima
    S. flava var. ornata
    S. flava var. rubricorpora
    S. flava var. rugelii
    S. flava f. viridescens - described in this work
Sarracenia leucophylla
    S. leucophylla var. leucophylla
    S. leucophylla var. alba - described in this work
    S. leucophylla f. viridescens - described in this work
Sarracenia minor
    S. minor var. minor
    S. minor var. minor f. viridescens - described in this work
    S. minor var. okefenokeensis
Sarracenia oreophila
    S. oreophila var. oreophila
    S. oreophila var. ornata - described in this work
Sarracenia psittacina
    S. psittacina var. psittacina
    S. psittacina var. psittacina f. viridescens - described in this work
    S. psittacina var. okefenokeensis
    S. psittacina var. okefenokeensis f. luteoviridis - described in this work
Sarracenia purpurea
    S. purpurea ssp. purpurea
    S. purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla
    S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. venosa
    S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. venosa f. pallidiflora - described in this work
    S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii
    S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola
    S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana
Sarracenia rubra
    S. rubra ssp. rubra
    S. rubra ssp. alabamensis
    S. rubra ssp. gulfensis
    S. rubra ssp. gulfensis f. luteoviridis - described in this work
    S. rubra ssp. jonesii
    S. rubra ssp. jonesii f. viridescens - described in this work
    S. rubra ssp. wherryi
    S. rubra ‘Incompletely diagnosed taxon from Georgia and South Carolina’

Edited by Phil Green, 21 October 2011 - 14:06 PM.