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Pinguicula question


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#1 Oleksii

 
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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:38 PM

Hi to all!

I'm going to obtaining seeds of Pinguicula grandiflora and have few questions:

-is there any difference between stratification during 8 and 12 weeks?

-is mix 1:1 peat:perlit suitable for using or i need to add some other components?

-will it be better keep seeds in Petri dish or on substrate surface during stratification?

And it is too early to ask, but does this species need day/night drop of temperature during it germination and grow?

Thank you a lot for your answers!

Oleksii



#2 johns

 
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Posted 13 October 2011 - 17:36 PM

-is mix 1:1 peat:perlit suitable for using or i need to add some other components?


I'll let somebody else answer the other questions. In my opinion perlite isn't very good for growing Pinguicula from seed, because rain or watering can cause the lightweight grains to move, covering small seedlings. A heavier gravel would probably be better. I know some growers use a mix of peat and coarse sand.

#3 Oleksii

 
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Posted 13 October 2011 - 18:06 PM

Thank you for reply.

Oh, I know about this feature of perlite. It looks really disastrous. But If plant is keeping indoor and is watered by tray method, it can be used i think. I hope i'll find sand till moment of planting (it's hard question)




#4 mauro

 
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Posted 13 October 2011 - 20:52 PM

Hi to all!

I'm going to obtaining seeds of Pinguicula grandiflora and have few questions:

-is there any difference between stratification during 8 and 12 weeks?

-is mix 1:1 peat:perlit suitable for using or i need to add some other components?

-will it be better keep seeds in Petri dish or on substrate surface during stratification?

And it is too early to ask, but does this species need day/night drop of temperature during it germination and grow?

Thank you a lot for your answers!

Oleksii


I think you should do some at 8 weeks, and some at 12 weeks. Or something like that.
I've had the most success stratifying the seeds on the substrate surface: I have used spaghnum and peat, and both work.
This species is pretty forgiving, so while it does like a decent temperature drop between day and night, it's not super important. If you're having a heat wave of 2 weeks or more, it might be an issues. Maybe some other growers could provide some input here.

I hope this helps!

Mauro

#5 Oleksii

 
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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:54 AM

Mauro, thank you! It's helpful!

Maybe, I add some sphagnum instead part of peat, due to moss antibiotic qualities



In addition, photo og my flowering Ping. hybr. :oops:

Posted Image


Edited by Oleksii, 14 October 2011 - 08:29 AM.


#6 jesse

 
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Posted 14 October 2011 - 09:56 AM

I'm going to obtaining seeds of Pinguicula grandiflora and have few questions:

-is there any difference between stratification during 8 and 12 weeks?


I don't know. With my strain of P. grandiflora I can sow them without any stratification and they germinate within 4 to 12 weeks with more than 25% germination rate. That was enough for me. I germinated my plants from seed once, and after I have grown a few plants, the quickest way of propagation is from the small winter gemmae that appears at the side of the winter buds.

-is mix 1:1 peat:perlit suitable for using or i need to add some other components?


P. grandiflora is not picky about the substrate. I use pure peat for mine.

-will it be better keep seeds in Petri dish or on substrate surface during stratification?


I never used Petri dish. I never used stratification with P. grandiflora.
All I know: You better keep fungus as well as fungus gnats away from the seeds sown. Germination time is long, they do not germinate all at the same time, and small seedlings can easily be killed by fungus and by fungus gnats larvae. Perhaps you can make them germinate more uniformly at the same time with stratification, but I don't know.

And it is too early to ask, but does this species need day/night drop of temperature during it germination and grow?


When sown under artificial conditions at room temperature, no wind and hardly any temperature drops, the seedlings bekome very weak and fragile. After keeping seedlings under indoor conditions for a longer time, it becomes very challanging to get them used to outdoor conditions. They tend to dry out in sun and wind and can easily die.

Unfortunately I was not successful in sowing them outdoors intentionally: You need a good rain protection for the pots, or the seeds will be washed out of the pots and get lost in heavy rain when sowing outdoors. But this year I had some P. grandiflora germinating unintentionally in my mini-bog: A small patch full of tiny seedlings appeared in late summer. Those outdoor seedlings look completely different to my indoor seedlings.

#7 johns

 
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Posted 14 October 2011 - 10:23 AM

Maybe, I add some sphagnum instead part of peat, due to moss antibiotic qualities


If you want to use dried long-fibered sphagnum, I suggest that you chop it or tear it into very small pieces. Not knowing better I sowed seeds of P. vulgaris in a mix of sand and long-fibered sphagnum two years ago, it wasn't a success. I think at least part of the reason is that sphagnum is too coarse. In addition the sphagnum sometimes expands or moves to partially cover seedlings during heavy rain.

#8 mauro

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 05:25 AM

As others have said, P. grandiflora is not picky about substrate. I've used both peat and limestone with good success.
If you want to grow them under lights, make sure you control the temperatures well. If you grow them under lights, leave them there until they're dormant, or, they will likely die if you move them from inside to outside.
As far as stratification, it isn't necessary. I got very fresh seeds early this summer that germinated (~20-30%, like Jesse said), and they didn't need stratification. So depending on how fresh your seeds are, you may want to do a stratification for 2-2.5 months. I would avoid using pure spaghnum, because as mentioned, it will overgrow seedlings. But it does have good antifungal properties which could help keep them safe. It's totally your call.

Great picture of your flowers! I think pings have some of the nicest flowers, very orchid-like.

Everyone's giving great advice, but do what you think is best - there is no tried tested and true method.


PS. Jesse, the P. macroceras are doing great! I'll have to post photos soon.

#9 jeff 1

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 07:09 AM

Bonjour

what grandiflora ?

if it is grandiflora subsp grandiflora use just blond peat , for the seeds , for the hibernaculae ( the plant),

out door ( it is necessary for them) with all the temperate pinguicula not need stratification :Laie_98:


jeff

Edited by jeff 1, 15 October 2011 - 07:12 AM.


#10 jesse

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 10:21 AM

Here are two pictures as of today, showing the difference between indoor and outdoor germination and growing of P. grandiflora seedlings.

Both batches of seedlings were grown from my outdoor-cultivated plants that flowered in spring this year and set seeds.

Artificial conditions, sown a lot of seeds indoor in my cellar, LED lighting period 12 hours:
Posted Image

Natural conditions outdoor in a mini-bog, self-sown seedlings, seeds must be directly fallen out from a seed capsule:
Posted Image

The indoor seedlings appear to be very weak, some leaves already dying.

The outdoor seedlings appear to be strong and look much better to me.

In both cases the seeds are from the May flowering / June ripening of the plants, so the seeds had no natural stratification.

#11 Oleksii

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 12:49 PM

I want to say I'm much obliged to all who replied! All tips were interesting to know.

jesse, you broke my conceptions about conditions of germinating temperate species :)

Will you make dormant period for your indoor germinated plants?

And one more question - grandiflora can stand against full sun or it should be shaded?



#12 jesse

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 14:04 PM

jesse, you broke my conceptions about conditions of germinating temperate species :)


How that? Normally it is easy to decide whether seeds of temperate plant species need a cold stratification before germinating or not:

1. Flowers in spring (April, May), ripening seeds in June ==> Will germinate in summer, no stratification needed
2. Flowers in summer (July, August), ripening seeds in September ==> Will germinate next year, cold stratification needed.

These two rules work with most perennial, hardy plant species (except species in areas with desert like conditions in summer). So hardy Pinguicula which are very early flowering plants need no stratification, while the later in summer flowering Drosera need one. That's no big difference to other early/late flowering plant species that grow in temperate regions of the world with cold winters.

Will you make dormant period for your indoor germinated plants?


I will try. The temperature in my cellar drops in winter, but I don't know if that will be enough. At least I will need a new timer switch as in the moment all my lighting for the plants in the cellar are at 12 hour lighting period, but temperate species need shorter lighting period.

And one more question - grandiflora can stand against full sun or it should be shaded?


Hot temperatures are poisonous to hardy Pinguicula. If you do not live in a chilly highland area, but where temperatures can rise a lot on hot and sunny summer days, you better keep P. grandiflora in bright shade only, at least during the hottest months of the year.

#13 mauro

 
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Posted 15 October 2011 - 22:32 PM

Yep, sustained high temperatures surely spell death for temperate pinguicula. If it gets above 25 for days/weeks at a time, they will decline. This year, mine were outside in temperatures of over 25 degrees during the day, but at night, the temperature fell to below 15 degrees, so this was ok.

1. Flowers in spring (April, May), ripening seeds in June ==> Will germinate in summer, no stratification needed
2. Flowers in summer (July, August), ripening seeds in September ==> Will germinate next year, cold stratification needed.


This makes a lot of sense,




Posted Image
P. macroceras ssp nortensis seedlings with a dew that tagged along

#14 jeff 1

 
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Posted 17 October 2011 - 06:47 AM

Hot temperatures are poisonous to hardy Pinguicula. If you do not live in a chilly highland area, but where temperatures can rise a lot on hot and sunny summer days, you better keep P. grandiflora in bright shade only, at least during the hottest months of the year.


yes and no

grandiflora subsp grandiflora can be left in the sun if they have a relatively high humidity of the air around (in example mini swamp or always a wet substrate ) then they will reduce their leaves surface( like in montain over 1500 m), to have large leaves preferring shaded situations excellent to catch a lot of prey .

this is what we see 'in situ' and of course when applying this 'ex situ'

an other example on vallisneriifolia and longifolia , in their environment , hot and wet nearly 'epiphyte'over the torrent,to have a maximun of prey they fell off their leaves, but their leaves are longer to have a correct surface.

other info

has three or four exceptions, on the temperate ping , all need to make a winter hibernaculum ,is their nature

often in august september outdoor the hibernaculum process begin

jeff

Edited by jeff 1, 17 October 2011 - 07:12 AM.