128 replies to this topic

[Davion]

Anyway ... "I"ll-Try to-Eventually Match-MANTRID's-Plants IN-NEWSPAPER-Cellulose ... though "I"m More-Interested IN-Determining The-Factors That Control CYANOBACTERIAL-Growth so-to-Speak ... Since-These-Organisms R-Apparently The-Source of CP-Stature so-to-Speak ,,, Though Finding-Out What Makes-Them Grow IN-CP-Soils & Getting-Them to Enter The-Plant IN-R Symbiotic-Relationship Is-an Irksome-Task "I'-Can 'Assure'-You ... Especially When Trolling The-Net Would Suggest That One-of-Their Key-Requirements Is-CALCIUM ... An-Element CPs R-'Suppose' to-Detest so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

[mantrid]

Davion, on 05 October 2011 - 00:43 AM, said:

"I"-Was 'Thinking' LAST-Night THART-"I"-Was One-of-The-'First' to-Complain Long, Hard &-Loud ABART The-NEW CPUK-Format With Smaller Avatar-Icons Etc, Etc ... so-Again ... Is-It Possible For-People With MOZART-Vision to-Return to-The-'Old'-System so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< PLEASE


OK ... With-THART Out-of-The-Way "I"d Like to-State That-"I"ve 'Had' Nearly 40-Years-Worth of Experience with Peat &-Other CP-Related Materials ... so-Unless You're using Some NEW Wonderous Moorland-GOLD Harvested-from Radioactive-Mine IN-Southern-Germany, Midland-China or the Outer-Moons-of Jupiter ... "I"-Have-to-say "I"-Personally don't 'Buy'-It ... but-Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me.

If-You-Were to-Say The-Plants Were Suffering-from: "LUXURY-Potassium-Consumption" ... "I"d-Be More-Inclined to-'Believe'-You ... For-"I"ve Always Loved-R-Good Story with Some Scientific Connection or Background so-to-Speak ... but-Again Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)<

Anyway "I"ll-be Interested to-See if MANTRID Can Get-His-Traps to FOUR-Inches IN-Size ... Which "I'-Doubt He'll-be Able to-Obtain If-Indeed He-IS Using High-Potassium-Levels to-Promote Colouration so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

The plants take nutrients from the media and from the insects they catch. They are in full, direct sun all day. Again why wouldnt they have a natural red colour to the inside of the trap as do the VFT growing in the wild. I doubt that someone spends their life wandering around the the borders of north and south Carolina feeding potassium to the VFTs there. I think you must be trying to pull my leg :)

And I am certain they wont develop 4" traps as I have had this plant for about 5 years and it has only managed 3.5" so far.

[mantrid]

Davion, on 05 October 2011 - 09:38 AM, said:

Anyway ... "I"ll-Try to-Eventually Match-MANTRID's-Plants IN-NEWSPAPER-Cellulose ... though "I"m More-Interested IN-Determining The-Factors That Control CYANOBACTERIAL-Growth so-to-Speak ... Since-These-Organisms R-Apparently The-Source of CP-Stature so-to-Speak ,,, Though Finding-Out What Makes-Them Grow IN-CP-Soils & Getting-Them to Enter The-Plant IN-R Symbiotic-Relationship Is-an Irksome-Task "I'-Can 'Assure'-You ... Especially When Trolling The-Net Would Suggest That One-of-Their Key-Requirements Is-CALCIUM ... An-Element CPs R-'Suppose' to-Detest so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Trying to match growth of your plants to mine is pointless as they are gentically different so any result, larger or smaller cannot be attributed to the growing media alone.

I have not seen any research on symbiotic relationship between cyanobact and vfts I would be interested in some links to this research.

Calcium is an essential element in cell function and is therefore required by VFTs. They might not be able to tolerate hight levels as you say, but they will be taking it up in some way.

[Davion]

"I"-Don't Want to-Compare The-EINSTEIN of The Chimp-World to The-'Hairest'-Person On-The-Planet so-to-Speak ... Even-though We're 'Suppose'-to-Share 98% of Our Genomes.

But-"I"m 'Still' HUNGRY to-Learn The-INs-&-OUTs of The-Venus-FLYTRAP ... &-"I"m Quite-Prepared to-Be Fully-FOOLISH ABART Just-'How' "I"-Go-About-It so-to-Speak ... so-"I"Guess It's Another-Example of AESOP's:"Tortoise-&-The-Hare" so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****
As-to The-Calcifuge-Barrier ... If-You're 'Not'-Interested IN-Determining 'Why' Some-CPs Grow-On Calcium-Rich Soils &-Others Within The-'Same'-Genus, Even, ... Detest-it ... Well All-"I"-Can Say Is THART "Something' Will Come-of-This-Kind-of-Knowledge When-it-Is Finally Uncovered so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****
Considering The Amount-of Cyanobacteria Festooning Resplendant-Pots of Flytraps These-Days ... "I'-"Find' The-Questioning of-R-Connection Somewhat-IRONIC so-to-Speak.

[mantrid]

Davion, on 07 October 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****

In my experience sunlight is the limiting factor controlling deepness of colour. Providing the plant is capturing sufficient insects to provide the neccesary nitrogen to produce the protein based pigments, other factors such as growing medium are not as critical.

re your experiment, I dont see how cellulose is of any benefit to the plant. Its just a polymer of sugar molecules that will be slowly broken down by microbes releasing co2 and water. Theres no nitrogen there that will aid growth of a plant. If it has a function it would only be a structural one to the medias physical properties, and I doubt it would be much use at that as far as I can see so to speak

Davion, on 07 October 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

****
Considering The Amount-of Cyanobacteria Festooning Resplendant-Pots of Flytraps These-Days ... "I'-"Find' The-Questioning of-R-Connection Somewhat-IRONIC so-to-Speak.

Im not questioning it just interested in where the research is. Still waiting for those refs/links. Cyanobacteria grow wherever there is light and moisture regardless of whether vfts are there or not. Just so happens vfts are found in these conditions to along with thousands of other spp. Are you saying that anything growing alongside cyanobacteria are in some kind of symbiotic relationship?

I think the only thing that will happen to a vft planted in that soup you have made is that it will rot. Its too wet, theres not enough aeration and it will harbour a miriad of bacteria and fungi that may also harm your vfts

[VFTLance <3]

Mantrid and Mobile i think both your plants look amazing =D Mantrid especially the VFT in pot A that colouring is just beautiful =D wish my VFTs would colour like that =P

Davion no offence but why do you have to question everything, no one here is competing its just a bit of experimental fun, also your posts are incredibly hard to read =)

[mantrid]

VFTLance <3, on 07 October 2011 - 15:49 PM, said:

Mantrid and Mobile i think both your plants look amazing =D Mantrid especially the VFT in pot A that colouring is just beautiful =D wish my VFTs would colour like that =P

Davion no offence but why do you have to question everything, no one here is competing its just a bit of experimental fun, also your posts are incredibly hard to read =)

Thanks, Theres no secret its just about light. Mine are outside in direct sun all day

[VFTLance <3]

Yeah mine are in my conservatory which gets mostly direct sun too, im going to try putting them outside next spring/summer as they did have pretty nice colouring this spring/summer, i also have a little VFT seedling in with one of my others which im going to try putting in pine needles as we have plenty of them around where i live, give this experiment a go see if i can make it work =D

[mantrid]

VFTLance <3, on 07 October 2011 - 16:01 PM, said:

Yeah mine are in my conservatory which gets mostly direct sun too, im going to try putting them outside next spring/summer as they did have pretty nice colouring this spring/summer, i also have a little VFT seedling in with one of my others which im going to try putting in pine needles as we have plenty of them around where i live, give this experiment a go see if i can make it work =D

good luck

[mobile]

Davion, on 07 October 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

With all due respect Davion, I have seen many experiments over the years and newspaper cellulose seems to be your latest, so I'm sure that you will understand that I will reserve judgement until I see evidence of any long-term success. Over those same years I have seen thousands of plants growing quite happily in 'ILL-Defined PEAT'.

It could be argued that recycled paper kitty litter is somewhat undefined, as I am doubtful that you could trace the raw material back to its origin and then determine what chemicals and fillers were used in the process of producing the paper, what inks were used in the print, chemicals used in any de-inking and those used in the recycle pulp. So, even if you have success with it, recycled paper kitty litter from another source or even a different batch of the same brand might be unsuccessful.

[Davion]

""Providing the plant is capturing sufficient insects to provide the neccesary nitrogen to produce the protein based pigments, other factors such as growing medium are not as critical"

'Still' Stuck-IN The-'Dark'-Ages Apparently!!!??? >(*~*)< Geez ... "I"-'Thought' "I"-Use to-Be Soo-GULLIBLE ... Kept-IN-The-Dark &-Fed-ON COMPOST so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<


"I dont see how cellulose is of any benefit to the plant. Its just a polymer of sugar molecules that will be slowly broken down by microbes releasing co2 and water" ...

Well "I"-'Suppose' You're @-Least Acknowledging CELLULOSE to-be R-Microbial Food-Source ... so-"I'-"Suppose' THART Gets-You One-Step-Closer to-Acknowledging The-Existence of Cyanobacteria IN-CP-Soils "I"-'Suppose'.

Will-You 'Enterain' The-Notion That For Cyanobacteria to-Grow-On R-Cellulose Medium WITHOUT Nitrogen they have to 'Fix'-It from The-Atmosphere Themselves so-to-Speak!!!??

Hopefully It's-R_Short-Distance From one-Brain-Cell-to-the-Next to-Consider that Instead of Breaking-Down The-Cellulose & Fixing-Nitrogen it-Would be Far Easier to-'Just' Let-The-Plant Feed-You Glucose & IN-Return-for THART Do-Something You-Can 'Do' IN-The Dark 24-7 & For The Plant to-Rely-On-R Fungus to-Obtain Carbohydtrate From the Soil that-It can Also 'Do' 24-7 so-to-speak Advantage ALL-Organisms so-to-Speak Way-to-Go Evolution Along Darwinian-Principles so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

But Then-again You-Were Never-Noted for-You 'Resistence to-NEW-Ideas Were-You so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<
rr'

[mantrid]

Davion, on 08 October 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

Will-You 'Enterain' The-Notion That For Cyanobacteria to-Grow-On R-Cellulose Medium WITHOUT Nitrogen they have to 'Fix'-It from The-Atmosphere Themselves so-to-Speak!!!??

Yes. However, wheres the evidence of a symbiotic relationship with VFTs? Ive never seen nodules on a VFT. I dont rule it out but you state it as fact, wheres the evidence.

Davion, on 08 October 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

Hopefully It's-R_Short-Distance From one-Brain-Cell-to-the-Next to-Consider that Instead of Breaking-Down The-Cellulose & Fixing-Nitrogen it-Would be Far Easier to-'Just' Let-The-Plant Feed-You Glucose & IN-Return-for THART Do-Something You-Can 'Do' IN-The Dark 24-7 & For The Plant to-Rely-On-R Fungus to-Obtain Carbohydtrate From the Soil that-It can Also 'Do' 24-7 so-to-speak Advantage ALL-Organisms so-to-Speak Way-to-Go Evolution Along Darwinian-Principles so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

This doesnt make any sense. It appears you are just using scientific terminology interspersed amongst a confusing way of writing to make it look to the average person that it is real science.

I have found no real research on the claims you are making from your posts here and in other forums. When the phrase 'calcifuge barrier' is searched nothing but posts by you self appears. What actually is this barrier?

Davion, on 08 October 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

But Then-again You-Were Never-Noted for-You 'Resistence to-NEW-Ideas Were-You so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<
rr'

???  You dont know me

[Amar]

What I find amazing is that people actually read (and partially understand) Mr. Davion's posts. I have long since given up.

[maxxima]

Greetings from Istanbul,


I've been also using pine needles but in little amount. Unfortunately I am not an aged VFT grower so I couldn't tell you if it makes a difference or how much of a difference it makes...It hasn't been that long but the plants you will see below were potted into a pine mix at the beginning of summer and this is going to be their first dormancy. They all had 2-3 leaves back then, I wish I had taken a picture but I didn't.
In case you are curious; my mix is %50 perlite, %25 peat, %25 pine needles and topped with live sphagnum. The sphagnum is partly very black; I suspect that's due to an insecticide (sp?) I have sprayed lightly. However, I have also sprayed a few home recipes (against mites) so I don't really know which one is the culprit.

ps: I don't ever feed any of my plants. They are all on the balcony taking care of it themselves. In case you wondered about that oversized fly trapped... :)

Edited by maxxima, 09 October 2011 - 07:27 AM.

[mantrid]

So far it seems the pine needles can certainly be used as a perlite substitute, and are far more sustainable and environmentally friendly. Perlite has to be purchased and isnt cheap it is also mined which takes energy and inpacts on the environment. its actually expanded by heating to 1200c again requiring large amonts of energy. If my plants are growing well in pine needles in a years time I think I will replace my use of perlite with needles

[Defalotus]

Davion, you're a troll. Idk what you expect to gain by antagonizing these guys. I have seen you do a few experiments myself on a few different sites and 2 things are in common in all of them...theyre weird and never get finished.

Good job Mantrid and Mobile!

[petesredtraps]

I can only draw a conclusion from what I have seen with the pictures,and it seems VFTs seem to grow well with a pine needle mix.
So, for those of us that would like to give it a try when repotting next year, where would one aquire the pine needles?
Please don't say "gather from the forest floor" there is nothing like that near the chav capitol of Doncaster.

[mobile]

petesredtraps, on 10 October 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

So, for those of us that would like to give it a try when repotting next year, where would one aquire the pine needles?
Please don't say "gather from the forest floor" there is nothing like that near the chav capitol of Doncaster.

Are there any parks around, as you might find pine trees in there? They are common in the UK, so there's likely to be some around near you.

[mantrid]

petesredtraps, on 10 October 2011 - 11:55 AM, said:

I can only draw a conclusion from what I have seen with the pictures,and it seems VFTs seem to grow well with a pine needle mix.
So, for those of us that would like to give it a try when repotting next year, where would one aquire the pine needles?
Please don't say "gather from the forest floor" there is nothing like that near the chav capitol of Doncaster.

There seems to be some conifers to the just to the west of sandall beat wood.
There might also be some in the other woods on the east side of doncaster, sandall beat wood, shaw wood, sandall park
and theres a big wood to the west of sprotbrough.
Google earth is your friend :)

[mantrid]

Update

22/10/11


25/09/11


22/08/11


The colour variation is very evident now between these genetically identical plants. Could the growing medium be playing a part? Is it down to the amount and type of insects being caught or is it something else. For those not following this exp all conditions were kept the same exept the growing medium, and of course being outside I had no control of the prey caught. Interested to hear other peoples theories?
Another interesting experiment for the future ie control the type and amount of prey being caught to see the effect on growth and colour.