128 replies to this topic

[James O'Neill]

gardenofeden, on 17 July 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

those would be larch needles then!!
I suspect they would have similar properties though!

Good point. Common mistake I make - when I say pine, I mean conifers. I really shouldn't, but I do.

[danthecpman]

dont see why larch needles would be different to be honest

[mantrid]

Update

22/08/11


15/07/11


2/06/11

[FlytrapRanch]

Extremely interesting experiment. Thank you very much for sharing this experiment and ongoing results with the rest of the international carnivorous plant growing community.

[mobile]

Looks like I need to get myself some pine needles. Shouldn't be a problem getting them around here

How old were the pine needles, i.e. fresh or partially composted?

[mantrid]

Mixture of both. taken from surface down to about an inch deep. Although pine needles are not having a negative effect on growth the experiment needs repeating with larger sample size to see if there is a benefit.

[mobile]

I would imagine that pine needles wouldn't absorb or transfer water very readily. What level do you keep the water?

I notice that moss seems to be growing more on the 100% pine more than any of the other mixes.

mantrid, on 02 June 2011 - 19:10 PM, said:

D - moss peat
E - 30:70 perlite moss peat

I think you might have these keys the wrong way around?

[mantrid]

mobile, on 23 August 2011 - 20:36 PM, said:

I would imagine that pine needles wouldn't absorb or transfer water very readily. What level do you keep the water?

I notice that moss seems to be growing more on the 100% pine more than any of the other mixes.


I think you might have these keys the wrong way around?

They are all in the same tray. Water level goes from empty to about 1 cm, deeper briefly during heavy rain until I empty it out (they are kept outside with no protection).
The 100 % pine needle is noticably dryer than the rest, at least at the surface. It would be interesting to unpot them to see how the different media has affected the root development particularily the length. I theorise that the dryer pine needle pot will have longer roots to get to the optimum water saturation which is probably lower than the rest of the pots. But as I only have one of each I will resist doing this. Maybe something to try in future.

Yes it is strange that there is so much moss on the 100% pine needle pot, cant explain this.

Thanks for spotting the error. Im glad someone is paying attention. Ive corrected it now

[mobile]

Found the post linked below and it appears that others have grown VFT in pine needles. Some good info about their natural habitat and soil too:

http://www.flytrapca...otos-t8409.html

[mobile]

I have also started a pine needle experiment. This is not a comparative, rather a long term experiment. I have used approximately 3 parts dried pine needles to one part peat, with a 10mm top layer of fresh (green at time of planting) pine needles. I've used an 18cm tall pot, which is standing in approximately 2.5cm tray of deionised water. I have noticed a oil film forms on the surface of the water, which must come from the needles. The VFT was taken out of my bog garden, where is wasn't doing well. The young growth that you see in the centre of the plant has developed since potting in the pine needles on 24th August 2011. It is under 35W of metal halide lighting.

[FlytrapRanch]

Thanks for posting your experiment, ingredients and photos, mobile. Very interesting experiments in alternative growing media.

[Davion]

Extremely 'Interesting'-Experiment ... but-"I"-Can't 'See' Any-Signs of Peat so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< "I"-'Want'-Some More-Evidence THART-It 'Really'-IS R 3-Parts-Pine-Needle / 1-Part-Peat Replicate so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

[Daniel G]

Davion, how were you expection to see signs of peat with, To quote "10mm top layer of fresh (green at time of planting) pine needles"

Can't you just trust the information that Mobile has given you in saying that it is 3 parts dried pine needles and 1 part peat?

And Mobile, good luck with your experiment, keep us posted :)

[mobile]

I suspect that the pine needles with breakdown, but time will tell.

[Daniel G]

Pine needles wil turn to an acidic medium as they break down won't they?

[Davion]

NOPE: ... 'Not'-When INDUSTRY's Been Saying One-Thing &-Doing Another so-to-Speak. >(*~*)<

"I"-Mean WHERE-Did The Grit-sh** Idea-Come-From &-The The-Keeping Your-Pots ON-The-Bone-'Dry' Side-of-Life so-to-Speak ... so-Much for 'SWAMP'-Plants so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / TANNIC-Teas / TRICHODERMA ... When All-The-Mushroom-Growers 'Avoid' Trichoderma-Impregnated COIR Like The-Plague so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)<
And What-ABART The Peat-&-PERLITE Conundrum ... ONLY-"Works' If-The Perlite is-of The-ALKALINE-Variety so-to-Speak ... But-They NEVER-'Mention'-THART Do-They ... &-R Proably Selling-You the ACID-Variety as-Well "I"-Would 'Suspect'!!!??? >(*~*)<

&-What-ABART ALL-Those 'PORES' ON-The Petioles so-to-Speak ... NOONE Ever-'Questions' THOSE!!!??? >(*~*)<

What-ABART All-This 'WHITE'-Sand over The-Surface BIZZO???

"I"-Mean if-You're Goanna make-Up R-Pine-Needle &-Peat Mix You Make-UP R-Pine-Needle-&-Peat Mix ... &-Then 'Later'-ON 'Discover' THART You-'Need' or-Require to Place Just Pine-Needles Over-the-Top so-to-Speak.

CONCEALMENT Is-'Not' Part-of The-Scientific-Method. There May-Be INTELLECTURAL-Proptery Involved ... But Concealment Is-'Not' Part-of The-Process so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Maybe "I"m Being-R-Little-HARSH ... But "I"-Have-Raise Quite-R-Few Valid-Points ... &-"I"-Wouldn't Be-Able to-Do-This If-there Wasn't Something 'Just'-R-Little ODD Going-On @-The-Moment IN-The-World-of CPs  ... "I"-Mean There-R-People Putting-UP Photos of sh**-Plants &-They're Getting Admirational-Comments Lavished Upon-Them so-to-Speak ... Which Does-Bring-INTO-'Question' The-Degree, Depth &-HONESTY of The-Whole Deception / Conspiracy so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

[mobile]

Davion, on 10 September 2011 - 17:34 PM, said:

[...] but-"I"-Can't 'See' Any-Signs of Peat so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< "I"-'Want'-Some More-Evidence THART-It 'Really'-IS R 3-Parts-Pine-Needle / 1-Part-Peat Replicate so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Davion, on 11 September 2011 - 18:45 PM, said:

"I"-Mean if-You're Goanna make-Up R-Pine-Needle &-Peat Mix You Make-UP R-Pine-Needle-&-Peat Mix ... &-Then 'Later'-ON 'Discover' THART You-'Need' or-Require to Place Just Pine-Needles Over-the-Top so-to-Speak.

CONCEALMENT Is-'Not' Part-of The-Scientific-Method. There May-Be INTELLECTURAL-Proptery Involved ... But Concealment Is-'Not' Part-of The-Process so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

I don't know if the two statements are related, but I can't see why I would want to mislead people about the mix being 3:1 pine needle:peat. What would be the purpose in that? If you choose not to believe me then that's okay with me, though I fail to see why you would choose to

It was always my intention to 'top-up' the surface with pine needles as the level drops, which it will undoubtedly do as those at the bottom rot. I used a pine needle:peat mix in the root region, as I felt that pine needles alone were too open and was worried that the roots would be too dry as such.

[Davion]

Well It-Goes Like-THIS:

(1) If-"I"-Make-UP R 3-Parts Pine-Needle-&-1-Part Peat Mixture &-It Doesn't 'Look'-like Yours  ... Then-"I"-Question Either My-Peat Or My-Needles so-to-Speak.

(2) If My-Mixture 'Looks'-like Yours but My-Plants Grow-Differently to-Yours ... Then-"I"-Have The-Opportunity to-'Question' Other Parametres so-to-Speak.


By-Covering Your Experiment with R-Layer-of Pine-Needle You're VISUALLY-'Implying' an-Experiment of VFTs IN-PURE Pine-Needles so-to-Speak ... R-Contradiction IN-Experimentation.

"I"-Wouldn't GO-As-Far as-to-Say THART Your Experiment is NULL-&-VOID ... Just-THART It-Lacks Experimental RIGOUR &-Some Clarity of FORTHOUGHT so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

EASILY-'Fixed': ... Chuck-it-OUT &-'Start'-Again so-to-Speak!!! >(*U^)< Learn The-'True'-Way of SCIENCE via The-School-of 'Hard'-Knocks KILL-R-Few-Plant ... Get-R-Few RESULTS Under-Your-Belt so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< Ha-Har

"I"ve-Been-@ The-COALFACE For-39-Years ... You-Don't 'Think' "I"-Refer-to-It as:"The-b******-Plant" 'Just'-Out-of-Pure / Sheer &-Utter SPITE Do-You!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< "I"ve "Seen' Too-Many People Devout 2-5-Years of Their-Lives to-It &-THEN Give-UP &-Fall-by The-WAYSIDE so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)<

Anyway The-'Choice' to-Pursue The-FLYTRAP Is-Yours so-to-Speak ... But-You're Goanna-Have to-Rigour The-'M'uck-UP If-You Want-to-Make Any-HEADWAY so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

It-Could-All END-IN-Tears ... But-You 'Have'-Been WARNED so-to-Speak!!! >(*U^)<

[mobile]

Davion, on 12 September 2011 - 18:05 PM, said:

EASILY-'Fixed': ... Chuck-it-OUT &-'Start'-Again so-to-Speak!!! >(*U^)< Learn The-'True'-Way of SCIENCE via The-School-of 'Hard'-Knocks KILL-R-Few-Plant ... Get-R-Few RESULTS Under-Your-Belt so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< Ha-Har

It aint gonna happen I'm afraid. There are many species of pines so, if I use Scots Pine  and you use Wolleni Pine, for example, and your results were different to mine then would that be down to the species used, or other environmental factors? To be of scientific significance, a comparative experiment would need to have very defined parameters.

[Davion]

Well ... Thanks-for The-COMPLIMENT so-to-Speak ... My-Move INTO Newspaper-CELLULOSE Is-Obviously R-Better-Course to-Pursue ... Since Everyone ON-The-Entire-Planet Has-Access to NEWSPAPERS so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

It-Shouldn't-be 'Long' Before The RESULTs Start to-Come-In Either so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<


Will The-Humble-FLYTRAP Finally-'Succumb' &-Give-UP-Its-Secret UNDER-The-Spotlight to Unprecedented-Pressure & Scrutiny so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< Ha-Har