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S. flava 'Blood Sweat and Tears'


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#1 pwilson

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 09:54 AM

Hi,

Thought I'd give everyone a first showing of a new Sarracenia cultivar that I'm planning to name. It's a cross between S. rubra ssp jonesii and a NC form of S. flava var. atropurpurea. The cross was made for me by Phil Sheridan after I saw a plant of the same parentage in his nursery in Virginia.

I selected this clone for it's intense red colour and also because the nectar is produced in profuse amounts in the pitcher throat, which makes it look as if it's almost sweating, though of course Blood Sweat and Tears also refers to a band from the 60's! We are hoping to make the first propagations of this plant available later in the year after publication. The intense red colour is darkest in the pitcher throad but extends almost all the way down the pitcher tube. The pitchers are about mid-size between those of both parents and retain some of the slenderness of the jonesii parent.

Enjoy!

Posted Image

And the flower.

Posted Image

Phil

#2 Dianne Salter

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 10:03 AM

Nice plant Phil! Love the colours of the flower!!!

Di

#3 Alexis

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 10:19 AM

Fantastic! You don't see many red popei crosses.

#4 Rokosauros

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 11:10 AM

*whistles loudly* thats one beautiful sarracenia! I think the name suits it fine (though a little intimidating!). How does those red droplets from around the mouth area? I'm guessing those droplets are nectar.

#5 James O'Neill

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 16:02 PM

That's a fabulous name for a fabulous plant. I look forward to it becoming more widle available.

#6 Mike King

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 18:24 PM

Very nice Phil!

#7 Daniel G

 
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    Getting a better Sarracenia collection.
 

Posted 08 April 2011 - 18:42 PM

Wow! That's just brilliant!
I love the sweaty look to it, and i want one!

#8 Guest_Andreas Eils_*

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 18:49 PM

No need for tears for such an outstanding plant! ;-) The flower is also nicely coloured. Congrats! :tu:


Andreas

#9 pwilson

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 20:36 PM

*whistles loudly* thats one beautiful sarracenia! I think the name suits it fine (though a little intimidating!). How does those red droplets from around the mouth area? I'm guessing those droplets are nectar.


Yeah the droplets are indeed nectar! There's another clone in the pipeline from the same crossing that is more lightly coloured. I'm waiting to see what the flower is like yet before I publish this one but the name planned is 'King Crimson'. Love those prog rock bands. :tu:

Glad you all like this one. I'll post a few more of my favourite pitchers here soon.

Phil

#10 dchasselblad74

 
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Posted 08 April 2011 - 22:48 PM

Very Nice plant.....I want one :tu:

#11 frangelo

 
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Posted 12 April 2011 - 17:17 PM

Hi Phil, nice cross! Congratulations! :)
Only a negative thought however: why "S. FLAVA 'Blood Sweat and Tears'" ? Since it is a simple cross (a Popei, and not a introgressed form) don't you think that the name FLAVA will add some confusion to the already confused (it's an euphemism...) and quite embarassing situazion about hybrids cultivation and nomenclature?

Cheers

#12 Amar

 
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Posted 12 April 2011 - 17:52 PM

Hi Phil, nice cross! Congratulations! :)
Only a negative thought however: why "S. FLAVA 'Blood Sweat and Tears'" ? Since it is a simple cross (a Popei, and not a introgressed form) don't you think that the name FLAVA will add some confusion to the already confused (it's an euphemism...) and quite embarassing situazion about hybrids cultivation and nomenclature?

Cheers


That is a very good point. If it shall be a cultivar, just name it: Sarracenia 'Blood Sweat and Tears', and be sure to name the parentage.

Edited by Amar, 12 April 2011 - 18:08 PM.


#13 (Maniac)

 
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Posted 12 April 2011 - 22:13 PM

Indeed the plant is interesting, specially for its red gradation and pitcher shape.
I guess the colouration turns more vivid and intense in Autumn, thanks for the S. rubra side of the parentage, right?
Does the plant produce fat and robust rhizomes like S. flava, or more fragmented in the way of S. rubra? What is the colour and size of the ensiform leaves?

Anyway, I agree with frangelo.

For the kind of taxonomic method I use to follow, before the cultivar registration this plant would be called Sarracenia x popei "Blood Sweat and Tears"; after the cultivar registration, it can become Sarracenia x popei 'Blood Sweat and Tears' or simply Sarracenia 'Blood Sweat and Tears'.
Excuse me for boring. :wink:

Edited by (Maniac), 12 April 2011 - 22:15 PM.


#14 Alexis

 
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Posted 12 April 2011 - 23:08 PM

As I understand it the hybrid Latin name isn't included in the cultivar name. It would be Sarracenia "Blood, Sweat and Tears" (becoming single quotes once registered).

As a shortcut though, I believe you would describe it as S.x "Blood, Sweat and Tears"

#15 pwilson

 
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Posted 14 April 2011 - 13:32 PM

Hi Phil, nice cross! Congratulations! :)
Only a negative thought however: why "S. FLAVA 'Blood Sweat and Tears'" ? Since it is a simple cross (a Popei, and not a introgressed form) don't you think that the name FLAVA will add some confusion to the already confused (it's an euphemism...) and quite embarassing situazion about hybrids cultivation and nomenclature?

Cheers


You are absolutely right of course. I have no idea how "flava" got in there! It should of course be known as S. "Blood Sweat and Tears'. I've just prepared the cultivar desciption and I got it right this time. :(

Phil

#16 pwilson

 
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Posted 14 April 2011 - 13:36 PM

As I understand it the hybrid Latin name isn't included in the cultivar name. It would be Sarracenia "Blood, Sweat and Tears" (becoming single quotes once registered).

As a shortcut though, I believe you would describe it as S.x "Blood, Sweat and Tears"


You can quote the species name though there is no requirement to do so under the ICRA guidlines. THe "x" is superfluous though and the cultivar name should be enclosed in single inverted commas. I wrote an article for the CPS journal some time back on the black art of cultivar naming and registration. Maybe it would be worth taking the salient points and posting here on the FAQ section?

Phil

#17 pwilson

 
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Posted 14 April 2011 - 13:45 PM

Indeed the plant is interesting, specially for its red gradation and pitcher shape.
I guess the colouration turns more vivid and intense in Autumn, thanks for the S. rubra side of the parentage, right?
Does the plant produce fat and robust rhizomes like S. flava, or more fragmented in the way of S. rubra? What is the colour and size of the ensiform leaves?

Anyway, I agree with frangelo.

For the kind of taxonomic method I use to follow, before the cultivar registration this plant would be called Sarracenia x popei "Blood Sweat and Tears"; after the cultivar registration, it can become Sarracenia x popei 'Blood Sweat and Tears' or simply Sarracenia 'Blood Sweat and Tears'.
Excuse me for boring. :(


Hmm. Not sure about this one actually. The hybrid names such as Popei and Mitchelliana are a bit odd as they are neither taxonomic or cultivar epithets and AFAIK aren't really used apart from with Sarracenia. Jan Schlauer is the expert and will know though I don't know if he's on this forum. It might actually be more correct to use the full hybrid designation - that is, S. flava var. atropurpurea x S. rubra ssp jonesii 'Blood Sweat and Tears' though that is certainly quite a mouthful and would mean investing in 10" labels to get everything on! I prefer the far simpler, S. 'Blood Sweat and Tears' or possibly use an ampisand to replace "and". There is a fair bit of flexibilty when describing a cultivar and you can for instance specify the name and even the method of propagation. There is certainly no requirement to actually list the parentage as in some plants this is not even known.

I don't think it's boring! :offtopic:

#18 Alexis

 
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Posted 14 April 2011 - 14:23 PM

I tend to use Maniac's method.

As for the 'x' in the shortcut version, personally I prefer it as it differentiates between non-hybrids such as 'Cronus'.

#19 Amar

 
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Posted 14 April 2011 - 15:15 PM

I guess it's a matter of personal taste, but I prefer to use as few letters as possible, when putting down the name on paper (or on a computer screen..).
Sarracenia 'Blood, Sweat and Tears'
or
S. 'Blood, Sweat and Tears'
(whereas it's optional to add the parentage, so, in a perfect world I'd name this plant like this:

Sarracenia 'Blood, Sweat and Tears' (= Sarracenia rubra ssp. jonesii × flava var. atropurpurea)
(and yes, I would add a comma after Blood, and yes, that is a multiplication sign ×, and not the 3rd last letter of the alphabet x, :offtopic: )


I also would not mention the name popei either in any way, there is no need when the parentage is well known.

Slightly compulsive, could be with certain things, yeah. :(

Edited by Amar, 14 April 2011 - 15:29 PM.


#20 jimfoxy

 
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Posted 27 April 2011 - 22:02 PM

Maybe it would be worth taking the salient points and posting here on the FAQ section?

Phil


Definitely a good idea, Phil. I am forever forgetting the definitive syntax and it would be nice to have a quick reference.