6 replies to this topic

[Greg Allan]

I guess that this provides a definitive answer to any question marks over whether the tropical annual Byblis are correctly classified:

http://www.springerl...3u/fulltext.pdf

Greg

Edited by Greg Allan, 01 November 2010 - 19:16 PM.

[Drosera5150]

Hi Greg,

Excellent article, thanks for posting the link!

Most interesting is the fact that Byblis filifolia has a diploid and tetraploid form. This blatently shows that the tetraploid (self-pollinating) form of Byblis filifolia could easily be mistaken as a different species of Byblis such as Byblis guehoi to the untrained eye.  Especially if self-pollination is used as a main describing factor in species discernment. Until now, all forms of Byblis filifolia were considered to be diploid, i.e. needing two separate seedling clones in order to successfully cross- pollinate and successfully reproduce.

Also keep in mind, that crossing a tetraploid with a diploid produce triploid offspring, which are usually sterile. This could be a major factor in the complaints we've heard regarding little to no germination of Byblis seed acquired from various well- known sources.

Happy Growing!

Brian Barnes

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Wow, how did I miss this amazing article?? I'm still reading it, but what I've seen certainly seems to support the current species -- and possibly even more species that we haven't yet realized are there. Thanks Greg for bringing this to our attention!

Best wishes,
Fernando Rivadavia

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia, 02 November 2010 - 23:19 PM.

[Drosera5150]

Hello Friends,

Yes, it is an amazing study indeed!

However, it is also a well-known fact that the application of the chemical Colchicine can turn a plant into a tetraploid by doubling the chromosomes. This chemical treatment also can produce larger, more vibrantly colored flowers as well.  I truly do wish that the actual identities of the said "commercial growers" as stated in the document had been revealed to us, since this was obviously the source of all of the Byblis material that was presented for the study. I'm sure that would have proved quite interesting as well.

In my opinion, due to such possibility of the use of plant growth regulators such as Colchicine, GA3 and a host of others used in commercial nursery applications, the results of the study although interesting, may not hold as true if the Byblis study material had been harvested from the known Byblis populations in the wild.

Happy Growing!

Brian Barnes

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Brian,

Quote

In my opinion, due to such possibility of the use of plant growth regulators such as Colchicine, GA3 and a host of others used in commercial nursery applications, the results of the study although interesting, may not hold as true if the Byblis study material had been harvested from the known Byblis populations in the wild.

This would possibly be true if the article only dealt with chromosome numbers. But you are ignoring the fact that they also looked at the position of the 5S & 45S ribossomal RNA gene arrays as well as actually sequencing DNA - and not a single gene but the 5S-NTS, ITS (both nuclear), rbcL, and trnK intron (both chloroplast).

The species are thus very well supported by different data sets: chromosome numbers, gene positions, and DNA sequence. Not to mention taxonomy, ecology, geography, and all that we already knew. Hard to get any better than that...

Considering that the authors are Japanese, I guess we can assume that the plants used in the study came from Isao Takai.


Best wishes,
Fernando

[PofW_Feathers]

Fernando Rivadavia, on 4th November 2010 - 22:00 PM, said:

Considering that the authors are Japanese, I guess we can assume that the plants used in the study came from Isao Takai.


Best wishes,
Fernando

Dear Fernando-san,

It is not correct.  

And
To compare normal F08 clones with the F08 clones that the chromosome numbers were doubled with colchicine.
The clones were smaller than normal clones.
Please see: http://icps.proboard...=...&thread=524

F08:"Giant plant" Dominic Creak, Kimberley
(F number is my code number abbreviation for the Byblis filifolia complex.)

Kind regards

[PofW_Feathers]

Konnichiwa!

I do hope the authors. K. Fukushima; K. Imamura; K. Nagano; and  Y. Hoshi of the paper “Contrasting patterns of 5S and 45A evolutions…” will add some more Byblis species to their research once they have been formally described by Mr. Allen Lowrie and his colleague Dr John Conran. For example, all the new Byblis species as well as the potential type form of Byblis filifolia from the Biota project that were presented by Mr. Allen Lowrie in his Byblis presentation at the　International Carnivorous Plant Society conference in Leiden, The Netherlands in Aug. 2010.

Kind regards