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Another sick / dying ceph


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#1 LJ

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 15:32 PM

I'm now on my 4th sudden ceph death :biggrin: Still no clue as to what the cause is though I'm suspecting something fungal/viral, the pitchers and leaves go soft and then seem to turn quite purple. I've tried repotting the thicker part of root up for one of the previous casualites but noting has grown yet. The process seem to be a pretty quick one from the first signs of the pitchers/leaves going soft, I check them once or twice a week atleast so it does seem to be quite a sudden change. I dont think its heat related and cant see any obvious pests. I keep watering to a minimum - it does look a bit wet on the pic but I had just watered them....anyway here are a few pics so I can share the misery!!

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I'm beginning to think I'm never going to work out the problem with these but as a precaution I have seperated them all out and they're now sat in the greenhouse on the floor to keep the heat levels down. Really hope this is the last ceph death but somehow I doubt it as it seems to be spreading through them all :tu: Any suggestions for a miracle cure are welcome, I've taken cuttings for some but not all are big enough/have spare leaves so really hope it doesnt spread to those ones. If the pics remind anyone of problems they've had with cephs please let me know.

Heather

#2 Danny...

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 15:50 PM

This looks awfully familliar...

I had the exact same here..with a TC clone from Carniflora...

I just let it go it's way..outside exposed to all the elements..the mayority of the plant died and shrivelled to nothingness..

But two points seemed to recover very well after a week or two..and are still doing okay at this moment!

Only small juvenile traps present right now, but it's looking like he will make it.

The pot is standing in the tray, 2,5cm water, and the elements..

So, no miracle cure..just accepting the fact that one cannot win all...and keep believing in the plant's natural will to live..

I wonder what the Chepmasters come up with :biggrin:

#3 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 15:58 PM

Heather, what clone is it? are the other plants suffering the same clone?

#4 ada

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 15:59 PM

Sorry to see your misery Heather.I'd leave them on the floor to dry out a bit(not stood in water)and just moist so some air can get in the compost around the roots.There are a couple of tiny leaves in your photos that suggest part of the plant may make a come back from the roots.
Just pull the dead stuff off as it dries and goes crunchy.
How's the one i sent you doing?
ada

#5 LJ

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 16:15 PM

Stephen - its gone through various clones now - two typicals, one german giant and one big boy. Sadly all good sized plants.

Ada - the one you sent me is really well (so far). Even the greener leaves you can see on the pic are flaccid or starting to go that way. The other 3 plants went exacly the same way. I'm going to remove all the dead growth later on and maybe repot it to check the roots, atleast I know I cant make it any worse!

Danny - not sure if its just unhappy or something more serious, with 4 plants declining in the same way and so fast it makes me a bit suspicious. I've had a different clone die back to almost nothing but this was quite gradual and the plant did keep a few solid pitchers before starting to re-grow from new growth points. Its very strange, I hope atleast mine grows back as yours has done but I'm really not hopeful.

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Heather

#6 Martin Hingst

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 17:01 PM

Hi Heather,

sorry to hear that. Good luck that it will recover.

How do you grow it? I think the best you can do is - give it natural conditions, and it will become healthy and strong and can cope with any diseases better.

Natural conditions are:
fresh air. It is a coastal plant, and hates stagnant, humid air.
Then - cool temperatures (as it gets in coastal aereas) Especially a good drop of temperature at night.
And very much light. At least some hours of sunlight per day, and very bright light the other hours.
Very helpful are big containers, not only deep but wide as well.

A so grown Cephalotus will tolerate wet conditions. Or even need it. The soil in habitat is very wet most of the year.

I would compare its needs with those of e.g. R. gorgonias or Drosophyllum.

The older leaves look quite red - did they colour up under your conditions or did you get it already that coloured? The new leaves look quite green.

Regards

Martin

Edited by Martin Hingst, 01 August 2009 - 17:03 PM.


#7 Loakesy

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 17:07 PM

Looks like SCDS to me!

Sorry to see that Heather, it's never a happy day when a plant dies!!

#8 LJ

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 18:42 PM

Hi Martin - I do think my conditions are pretty good really, the pot size could do with being bigger but aside from that everything should be ok especially now they're out in the greenhouse, good air flow, cooler temps at night etc. They've coloured up quite well to say they dont get full sun all day though the colour has darkened on the dying pitchers. I've had the plant for about a year I think.

Andy - for one plant I would put it down to CSDS but as the numbers increas I'm starting to wonder. The only other person I've known to have a lot of cephs deaths is Bill otherwise I would think CSDS just affects the odd plant rather 4 in quite quick succession. Perhaps I'm just really really unlucky at the moment and it is just CSDS :biggrin:

#9 Loakesy

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 18:53 PM

You're right. You'd have to be really unlucky to have 4 plants suddunly die on you for unknown reasons.

I hope it's sorted quickly for you.

And take as many leaf pullings as you can now while you've still got healthy looking leaves!

#10 flycatchers

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 19:23 PM

Hi Heather,
The plant you show has got CSDS. You can see the creeping black on the base of some of the pitchers. If you remove a pitcher or leaf you would see the end that was attached to the plant is also black.
I seem to remember you said your plants were standing in different saucers. Did they ever sit in the same tray before this started to occur?
In my case all my affected plants had been in the same staging and everyone of my Adrian Slack clone alas died. :( I also had a few Phil Mann clones. My biggest died some months later.
Never have found the cause. Might have been something nasty in the water. But not high temperatures as they were far lower in that house last year than some previous years.
Might be worth doing a few leaf cuttings but suspect they will die in the same way. I also tried spitting up my affected plants and finding that some were completely affected while a few bits down to the roots seemed ok. But even these bits went shrivelled and black soon afterwards!
Sorry I can't think of any positive advice! :confused:

bill

#11 LJ

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 20:02 PM

Well if they've all got CSDS then hopefully that's my bad luck out of the way for this year! Anyone know what actually causes CSDS - is it a total mystery mixed with bad luck or thought to be something fungal/viral??

Bill - I did have all my cephs sat in the same tray for quite a while which is another reason i was worried it might be some sort of disease, they've only recently been split up as a precaution after the other 3 plants died. Did all your ceph deaths end up looking like this then??

Think I'd better take even more leaf cuttings just incase if keeps happening :confused:

Thanks everyone.

#12 Phil Green

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 20:40 PM

Hi Bill,
Are you saying all your slack clones died (you have none left) or just the affected ones died.

If you've got none left, let me know. I'll let you have one of my spares - mine came from you originally.

I lost my oldest one, but luckily just the one.

#13 flycatchers

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 21:47 PM

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the offer. Thankfully I had a few others in my other greenhouse. My Phil Mann Clones were altogether so I am keeping my fingers crossed that these two carry on ok. Glad you only lost the one plant.

Heather- Yes all my dead ceph looked like your current one. I also had a German Giant die back suddenly just before this outbreak last year. And that HAD been in my other greenhouse. But that did not display the black colouration and after repotting has come back. Still a lot smaller but alive!
According to Jonathan who has the excellent http://www.aqph26.ds....com/index.html web site CSDS is caused by the diease Pythium Root Rot. This is what you get with damping off with seedlings. It can spread through water. I never encountered this for the first 21 years of growing cephs so sure would like to know what changed last year!!

bill

#14 jimscott

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 22:12 PM

I sympathise and empathise. I've never had mine outside but would consider it I treat it similarly to D. regia, which has enjoyed being out on the porch. For me, at least, a top dressing of live LFS (I know...) did well by them and I watered when the tray was dry and poured the water directly into the pot, letting it drain through.

#15 Amar

 
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Posted 01 August 2009 - 23:04 PM

This is terrible Heather. Really sorry for your loss!
I've got one standard, one big boy, and one dudley watts (that's only a few mm large), and one fairly small hummer's giant.
I'd be glad to give you leaves of my standard, big boy and hummer's giant, if you wish, but I have never taken any leaf pullings before.

#16 LJ

 
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Posted 03 August 2009 - 19:05 PM

Thanks for the link Bill - very interesting stuff. I've spent a good few hours today soil drenching pots with provado to get rid of fungus gnats after reading that - I seem to have a bit of a problem with them at the mo. Looks like seperating them out should help as well if it can travel through water. I might invest in some Trichodroma too, anything is worth a shot if I can make it less likely to happen again.

Sadly I've found that another 2 of my plants have now been affected - another big boy and my lovely big hummers giant :morons: The big boy was only small but all the divisions were affected so its gone straight in the bin. The hummers was just starting to show symptoms - there were 5 plants after being unpotted and only one is showing symptoms so far so that was has been thrown away and the remaining 4 plants have been washed and potted up seperately so fingers crossed they might have been saved.

So much getting my bad luck out of the way for the year!! :shock:

Amar - thanks for the very kind offer :chiffa: Thankfully I already have some big boy cuttings that have taken and also a spare hummers, no where near in the same size region as ones lost but its a start. Lets just hope CSDS doesnt wipe out my whole collection!! It just shows how important it is to have back up plants, I'd get using those leaves Amar and make some spares, never tried cuttings in the greenhouse but I do find cuttings do very well under grow lights so with the set up you have you should find it very easy, I have a near 100% strike rate for ceph cutting, definitely higher than I get with my vfts!

#17 loligo1964

 
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Posted 03 August 2009 - 21:22 PM

I'm now on my 4th sudden ceph death :cray: Still no clue as to what the cause is though I'm suspecting something fungal/viral, the pitchers and leaves go soft and then seem to turn quite purple. I've tried repotting the thicker part of root up for one of the previous casualites but noting has grown yet. The process seem to be a pretty quick one from the first signs of the pitchers/leaves going soft, I check them once or twice a week atleast so it does seem to be quite a sudden change. I dont think its heat related and cant see any obvious pests. I keep watering to a minimum - it does look a bit wet on the pic but I had just watered them....anyway here are a few pics so I can share the misery!!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I'm beginning to think I'm never going to work out the problem with these but as a precaution I have seperated them all out and they're now sat in the greenhouse on the floor to keep the heat levels down. Really hope this is the last ceph death but somehow I doubt it as it seems to be spreading through them all :sad: Any suggestions for a miracle cure are welcome, I've taken cuttings for some but not all are big enough/have spare leaves so really hope it doesnt spread to those ones. If the pics remind anyone of problems they've had with cephs please let me know.

Heather


Judging from the symptoms, your problem may be linked to a Botrytis infestation (though I haven't been able to see your photos); and I have found that premixed neem oil treatments (Garden Light Neem II, in the US) has proven effective, both as an insecticide and fungicide. Also, I would avoid getting the crown of the plant(s) wet at all costs. I generally water my Cephalotus plants through the shallow tray method and haven't experienced any problems . . .

#18 loligo1964

 
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Posted 03 August 2009 - 21:30 PM

Finally, the photos loaded properly . . .

First, and foremost, I would hasten to remove any clearly dead leaves before mold arrives. Cephalotus plants occasionally go through this, often dying back to the rhizome but almost always returning in force. I have had plants for years that have died back only to return -- several times.

Some growers seem to think that this process may simply be a factor in the growth process of the species -- as maddening as that sounds . . .

#19 LJ

 
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Posted 04 August 2009 - 10:03 AM

Loligo - thanks for your reply, the plant in the photo was way past saving, after checking the roots I binned it. I have experienced ceph die back once recently and sure enough the do grow back from below the surface after some time and it now has more growing points. This seems very different though and the plants decline very fast and as mentioned above you can see the creeping black/purple coming from the stem of the pitchers. There's no coming back from this unlike a normal die back situation. I do water using the tray menthod too and try to remove dead growth to prevent mould.

My bet is on CSDS caused by Pythium. I'm just glad it doesnt seem to be a common occurance, mostly people have just had the odd plant end up like this. It only seems to be Bill and myself that have been this unlucky for it to spread to quite a number of plants. If Bill has only had this happen once in 21 years then atleast when the problem is gone I hope I dont get a re-occurance for quite some time!!

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Heather

#20 agustin franco

 
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Posted 04 August 2009 - 12:00 PM

Hi there:

There may be many reasons why a ceph dies. After looking at your photo, i'd go for too much heat without humidity.
If you notice the lids are closed. the pitchers look tender. Cephs can withstand heat, but with high humidity.


Gus

P.S By the way, i've killed at least 10 cephs, before i learned how to grow them

Edited by agustin franco, 04 August 2009 - 12:02 PM.