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Help with Pinguicula setup


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#21 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 06 November 2006 - 13:24 PM

I have been growing all of my Mexican species and hybrids, very wet, for more than 6 years now. I rarely have a case of rot. I have an anti-nematode strategy; I use high levels of fluorescent light, fertilize with dried, powdered, insects, and use all-mineral media.

How I cultivate Mexican Pinguicula

#22 Fernando Rivadavia

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 02:11 AM

Hey Joseph!

Thanks for your input, I enjoyed reading how you grow Pings. It seems I had it all wrong!! :):) So you CAN keep Mexican Pings wet year-round? Or did I misunderstand you? You can actually keep species like P.heterophylla, P.acuminata, P.rotundiflora, P.immaculata, P.conzattii, P.cyclosecta, P.laueana, P.esseriana, P.gypsicola, & P.orchidioides WET all year long??

Please, somebody tell me Joseph is crazy! :)

I was impressed by your soil mix and powdered-insect theory! Too bad probably none of these soils exist around here...


Thanks, Fernando Rivadavia

#23 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 04:10 AM

Hey Joseph!

Thanks for your input, I enjoyed reading how you grow Pings. It seems I had it all wrong!! :):) So you CAN keep Mexican Pings wet year-round? Or did I misunderstand you? You can actually keep species like P.heterophylla, P.acuminata, P.rotundiflora, P.immaculata, P.conzattii, P.cyclosecta, P.laueana, P.esseriana, P.gypsicola, & P.orchidioides WET all year long??

Please, somebody tell me Joseph is crazy! :)

I was impressed by your soil mix and powdered-insect theory! Too bad probably none of these soils exist around here...


Thanks, Fernando Rivadavia


Instead of Schultz aquatic plant soil, you should see if there is a granular cat litter product available of 100% mineral composition, without additives, preferrably fired so the granules do not readily crumble once the material is wetted. I have used such a product, in place of the aquatic plant soil, without problems.

I know my techniques may seem improbable to most growers of Mexican Pinguicula, who use traditional methods. However, it is true - ask Barry Rice, he visited here last month to see for himself. One comment he had was that he wished he had seen my collection and growing conditions 9 months earlier, before he had finished his book. He is scheduled to return to spend more time observing and photographing near the end of this month.

Of your list of species which may not appreciate being WET year-round, I am growing the following: P. medusina, P. rotundiflora, P. cyclosecta, P. laueana, P. esseriana, and P. gypsicola. Some of the others I am also growing are: P. macrophylla, P. debbertiana, P. jaumavensis, and P. hemiepiphytica.

After hearing epbb tell of success controlling "brown heart" disease using overhead watering, I think I shall tinker with adding that to my technique. Hypothesis being the leaf secretions may have a beneficial effect on the root environment of the plants. I do try to wash some of the applied powdered insects down into the crown of the plant, perhaps that effort already accomplishes this purpose as well.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
In describing my own growing techniques, I am not, in any way, attempting to imply that other techniques are invalid, I have no doubts that other growers are able to keep these plants growing well, under quite different conditions than my own. I am simply describing the conditions that have worked best for me.

#24 Fernando Rivadavia

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:29 AM

Hello Joseph,

Of your list of species which may not appreciate being WET year-round, I am growing the following: P. medusina, P. rotundiflora, P. cyclosecta, P. laueana, P. esseriana, and P. gypsicola. Some of the others I am also growing are: P. macrophylla, P. debbertiana, P. jaumavensis, and P. hemiepiphytica.


I don't understand. Do you grow these species wet year-round or not?? If not, what do you do in the dry season?


Take care,
Fernando Rivadavia

#25 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 12:25 PM

Please, somebody tell me Joseph is crazy! :)


Joseph is crazy :tu:

#26 gardenofeden

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 12:30 PM

see this thread
http://www.cpukforum...p...mp;&start=0

#27 Pyro

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 13:02 PM

I don't understand. Do you grow these species wet year-round or not?? If not, what do you do in the dry season?


I know I am not Joseph but I can answer as I have followed most all of his threads over the years. He groew all of his Mexi-Pings wet, and that does include the species you asked about. :)

#28 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 13:52 PM

Hello Joseph,

Of your list of species which may not appreciate being WET year-round, I am growing the following: P. medusina, P. rotundiflora, P. cyclosecta, P. laueana, P. esseriana, and P. gypsicola. Some of the others I am also growing are: P. macrophylla, P. debbertiana, P. jaumavensis, and P. hemiepiphytica.


I don't understand. Do you grow these species wet year-round or not?? If not, what do you do in the dry season?


Take care,
Fernando Rivadavia


I grow ALL in trays of water, year-round.

#29 jimscott

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 21:37 PM

Instead of Schultz aquatic plant soil, you should see if there is a granular cat litter product available of 100% mineral composition, without additives, preferrably fired so the granules do not readily crumble once the material is wetted. I have used such a product, in place of the aquatic plant soil, without problems.


Seeing as how we are both Americans and would be aware of much the same commerical products, is the particular brand name or product that would fit this description? Would a "crystal" cat liiter work or scoopable or clumping...?

#30 epbb

 
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Posted 07 November 2006 - 22:39 PM

The composition of the media should be done with the local avalaiblity :

part one : draining part : sand, crushed rocks, volcabic rock, pumice, perlite, vermiculite...
Part two : calcareous part : cat mineral litter, gypsum, marly limestone, marble...
Part 3 : organic part if wished : compost of oak leaves for exemple, no peat moss.

As Joseph do, I put twice a year some crushed flask fish food on the leaves of my plants.

I don't put foliage fertilization.

#31 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 08 November 2006 - 00:48 AM

Instead of Schultz aquatic plant soil, you should see if there is a granular cat litter product available of 100% mineral composition, without additives, preferrably fired so the granules do not readily crumble once the material is wetted. I have used such a product, in place of the aquatic plant soil, without problems.


Seeing as how we are both Americans and would be aware of much the same commerical products, is the particular brand name or product that would fit this description? Would a "crystal" cat liiter work or scoopable or clumping...?


jimscott,
The cat litter I obtained and used, to try it out, is a generic product distributed by WalMart, just called, "Special Kitty", Cat Litter. No fragrance or other additives. If you're adventurous and have plants to sacrifice, as I usually do, you probably still wouldn't want to try cat litter with any additives. Just the idea sounds wrong for CP. Besides, it is usually more expensive than the plain generic stuff. I used a kitchen stainless steel screen strainer to sift the fine particles out, tried some with and without the fines, did not notice any difference. I generally use the Schultz product because it is even more durable than the cheaper cat litter product.

#32 jimscott

 
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Posted 08 November 2006 - 16:49 PM

LOL! I've got a few extra P. luscitanica and P. primulifora and P. 'Sethos' to play around with - but not the P. gypsicola!!!

#33 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:43 AM

LOL! I've got a few extra P. luscitanica and P. primulifora and P. 'Sethos' to play around with - but not the P. gypsicola!!!


I propagate Mexican Pinguicula in several different ways. Nearly every time I repot or transplant them, I remove several to many healthy older leaves, winter form or summer form, I don't really care, they all work to propagate with. Here is a description of some of the ways I propagate; 1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves. --- Once the leaves have formed plantlets, I keep them as they are, until I have space to plant them into community or individual pots. They can remain in this small plantlet stage for many months, 6 months or more are not uncommon. If I don't manage to find space to plant them out into community or individual pots before they run out of resources, they will be lost. So I endeavor to make room for the new propagules, and am often successful, though not always (sometimes the new plantlets die before I have room for them). Needless to say I have no shortage of propagules, what I am short on is space to grow them out. I have more than 100 shoebox sized trays of mature, or near mature plants, and scores of gallon ziploc bags full of community pots, and many more cups, plates, small ziploc bags of leaf-pullings and/or small plantlets waiting to be potted and grown out.

I guess you could say I am a propagating fool. I most always have plenty of plantlets to test various theories on. Its a good thing plants are not considered the same as animals or the S.P.C.A. or rather the (S.P.C.P.) would probably have locked me up decades ago.

#34 Corrosive Halo

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:43 AM

Hey Joseph,

1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves.

What's the length of time between steps 2 & 3?

#35 Joseph Clemens

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:56 AM

Hey Joseph,

1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves.

What's the length of time between steps 2 & 3?

Actually 1, 2, & 3 are not steps, but different ways of keeping leaf-pullings, from the time they are removed from the parent plant, until I either wait too long and they perish, or I pot them up and they become a thriving colony of little Pinguicula plants.

I am putting this in red, because it is one of the most important details in getting plantlets from leaf-pullings, instead of a container of composted, rotten, leaves. Do not add moisture to the leaves, at any time before plantlets have formed. Even then it is potentially disastrous. The paper towl in the ziploc is there to absorb excess moisture from the leaf-pullings once they transpire it. The paper plate is open to the air, but until plantlets have formed it is best to keep water off of the leaves and plate. The plastic cups are similar to the paper plate method, and I suggest also avoiding free water on the leaves, at least, until plantlets have formed. Too much moisture on leaf-pullings will almost always result in rotten mush, instead of plantlets. The only exception I've experienced is when using live Sphagnum moss for the media. Its properties seem to be very effective in preventing this leaf-pulling rot.

If you mean, how long do I have to wait after removing the leaves from the parent plant, before there are plantlets that can be planted into individual or community pots. It varies, most often it takes about 2 weeks for the plantlets to form. Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. Once the plantlets have formed they can often be held in that state for a very long time, or planted right away if there is space for them.

#36 Pingman

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 06:56 AM

Joseph, i had to do a double take when i read your statement in red. I had not heard that ping leaves should be kept dry!!
i have always thought to keep them moist to prevent them from drying out. I do occasionally lose some to rot, so i guess i should try your method.
Thanks for the info!
Peter 8)

#37 jimscott

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 11:52 AM

I speak from disastrous experience about having wet leaves. This past spring I thought I'd take my collection outside, in the hopes that I could attract the natural pollinators. This was how they looked just before I took them out:

Posted Image

Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate a rainstorm that persisited for hours, overhwelming the storage conatiner that they were in. By the time I got home from work, plants and leaves were scattered. Although I drained the excesss water and moved to under the porch, the damage was done. The 2 plants that were flowering, died a slow death. The flowers withered. The leaves paled out and died. Some plants died weeks later and others stayed in a small state. I put them back and the attic, where they had been doing just fine. trust me, pings don't like having their leaves wet!

I can attest to the barely moist media in a baggie, at an east window for leaf propogation. Oddly, I learned that through Wicked Thistle, who learned that fom Pyro, who credits Joseph Clemens. The method may have been tweaked slightly by the time I learned it.

Another technique that works well, is one I adopted from a hobbyist called Capslock, and you can see a bit of it in the picture. Instead of putting a leaf in a sealed baggie or whatever, the leaf is placed either flat on exposed media, next to the mother plant, or with the basal part slightly and loosely embedded in the media, which for me is LFS.

#38 vraev

 
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Posted 09 November 2006 - 13:31 PM

Or you could just use a pot. ;)

-Ben


lol!...:roll:

#39 Corrosive Halo

 
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Posted 10 November 2006 - 21:06 PM

Actually 1, 2, & 3 are not steps, but different ways of keeping leaf-pullings


Aahhhhhhh. Now I get it. Thanks again for posting all this good info. :shock:

#40 napoleonbonaparte

 
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 16:34 PM

I was looking at some pics of pings growing in the wild and I got and idea. Maybe you already use it but I was thinking- You could make a drip wall/waterfall for your room. Not only that it would be a place to grow your pings but it would also be a decoration to your room. It could be made just like the aquarium backgroungd are made from styrofoam and than painted. You can stick actual rock on it and sand so it can REALLY look like a rock. The water pump from the tub or an aquarium it stands in would provide water.


How's that for an idea?