My poor nepenthes collection :(

[klosi]

Hi all!

I have a small and very poor looking nephs collection, which I'm still hoping that it will pick up and do better. Here is the description of them and my climate/growing conditions, lower there are a few questions for you experts to help me out. 

The problem starts, when I'm not even sure which species these are, there might be bloody marry one of these. Earlier this year I ambitiously put them outside, since the April was hot during the day, but bit colder trough night, and some people told me that the cold scored my nephs, and this is the bad state they are in now... The leaves look burned, but I did not put them on direct sun. During the winter they were in my room beside the window, humidity is low during the winter (35% :S). 

There was later in may some cold spell and I put them back in again, that was about 2-3 weeks ago and now I'm thinking that I should put them out again. During the day it's around 25°C but during the day it's 14°C. Is that too low? I think they would much better be off outside since humidity and air is better and it's a bit brighter outside. 

I have them planted mostly in (dead) sphagnum moss, some mixed with pumice, some mostly only in pumice. 

Any advices, species identifications and such stuff is very welcomed. Thank you!!!

 

[Zerbirus]

25 day and 14 night is perfect for most highland species, bloody mary will tolerate it but will do better with higher night temperatures if you can. I suggest keeping humidity high if you can since it'll help them recover as well as create side shoots and basals after their current stress.

Is the 2nd rebecca soper? If so im guessing one of the other 2 bigger ones might be ventrata

edit: forgot to mention, try misting with rain water or low ppm water several times a day, it'll help with the humidity but be careful with doing so if the sun hits them.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Zerbirus

[klosi]

Thanks @Zerbirus!

Your assumtions might be correct, I've done some digging and it turns out I bough ventrata, sopper and bloody marry.. Don't know exactly which is which. One of the 1. or 3. is definitly ventrata. Maybe both. 

So would it be a good idea to put them out again. I don't want to stress them too much with in and out rythm, so if I put them out it would be good for them to stay out till autumn...

Edited May 28, 2018 by klosi

[Zerbirus]

1 hour ago, klosi said:

Thanks @Zerbirus!

Your assumtions might be correct, I've done some digging and it turns out I bough ventrata, sopper and bloody marry.. Don't know exactly which is which. One of the 1. or 3. is definitly ventrata. Maybe both. 

So would it be a good idea to put them out again. I don't want to stress them too much with in and out rythm, so if I put them out it would be good for them to stay out till autumn...

ventrata and soper can stay out, as long as they dont get direct sun and night temps dont go below 10c, they can survive it fine but its more cold stress. The 12-14 nights we're getting now are fine. I had my first bloody mary at 11c night temps during winter for a week and it slowly died, leaves went black and nothing i did saved it since it didnt create a new shoot, its completely brown now. The bloody mary you should try and keep above 16c night temps.

Like I said you should mist frequently to keep humidity up. I dont suppose you can bag them or put them in a transparent container with some of the top covered to increase humidity can you? so theres still ventilation. To mother them back thats just what you have to do, give them everything they want and no stress from temperature and humidity. Theyre all easy to grow and forgiving so they should all bounce back fine. Watch them for new leaves and then slowly reduce the humidity back down to normal.

[Karsty]

This is my twopennethworth - Bloody Mary has ampularia as one parent, which is a lowland species, so there's a need for warmth there. From my (limited) experience with Nepenthes, moving them in and out and here and there doesn't suit them well, better to try them in one spot and wait, patiently, often they get used to it. Lastly, Several growers say they get used to many levels of humidity, including low.

[Zerbirus]

10 minutes ago, Karsty said:

This is my twopennethworth - Bloody Mary has ampularia as one parent, which is a lowland species, so there's a need for warmth there. From my (limited) experience with Nepenthes, moving them in and out and here and there doesn't suit them well, better to try them in one spot and wait, patiently, often they get used to it. Lastly, Several growers say they get used to many levels of humidity, including low.

Ampullaria love it at 28-30c day and 21c night, because of the ventricosa parentage it makes it more tolerant to cooler temperatures but with ampullaria parentage it'll still slow growth in highland temps and quickly decline at 12c and lower nights, hence how brown it is compared to the others. Bloody mary is an indoor windowsill plant, i mean ventrata and rebecca soper are too but they can also be grown outside in uk weather but bloody mary needs those warmer indoor temperatures.

edit: its also worth noting that larger nepenthes dont acclimatize as well as small ones, once they grow and get established in their environment they dont like it changed. Its also worth noting the ventricosa x ampullaria has suffered the most being intermediate x "ultra" lowlander (there are highland varieties but theyre rare in cultivation), ventricosa x alata intermediate x intermediate 2nd and ventricosa x ramispina intermediate x highland isnt showing as much damage since it can grow with 10c nights.

https://www.carnivorousplants.co.uk/resources/nepenthes-interactive-guide/#elevation this might help you with temperature ranges for your hybrids

Edited May 28, 2018 by Zerbirus

[klosi]

Thanks to both of you for chiming in. 

Unfotunately I don't have any terrarium like place to put them, to keep the humidity up. 

I just want to put them outside (those who can tolarate it) to give them better condition (more ligh, higher humidity, more air flow etc.) so they could thrive. The second one (rebecca sopper? or what did we land on?) thrived last year trough summer and made lovely looking pitchers (photo attached). 

So the bloody marry should stay in regardless to the warmth outside? Which one is it, the last picture? 

 

Sorry for the confusion :) Once I get it right, I'll just write the names on the pots to know. 

Thanks!

[Zerbirus]

Edited my last post if you missed it

Yes rebecca soper can stay outside until temps start to go below 9-10c at night, bloody mary tends to grow bushy from the ampullaria parentage so I cant see the cuttings being one, not easy identifying with the ends burnt off though and yes, stay indoors above 15c minimum, try bagging it with the top open with a sandwich bag since ampullaria love humidity. Ventrata can deal with 12c nights fine.

Ive got 3 rebecca sopers, a cutting back when I first started out and the seller said "sopher" hence the wrong spelling, then a large vining plant with uppers and in february a new one with that pitcher opening early on in the month. Its a very nice hybrid.

[Karsty]

I'm saying photo 1 might be Bloody Mary, and photo 4 looks more so like Bloody Mary.

I forgot to mention, my best educated guess is pumice by itself will not be soft enough for the roots  - they are delicate, if plastic pots are moved it might be damaging - and it probably doesn't hold enough moisture.

 

[Zerbirus]

25 minutes ago, Karsty said:

I'm saying photo 1 might be Bloody Mary, and photo 4 looks more so like Bloody Mary.

I forgot to mention, my best educated guess is pumice by itself will not be soft enough for the roots  - they are delicate, if plastic pots are moved it might be damaging - and it probably doesn't hold enough moisture.

 

Oh god yes, pumice is for light and airy mixtures, ampullaria is generally a swamp dweller that enjoys moist conditions. Dried sphagnum and perlite is a good all round mix or mix in some peat moss and orchid bark (or polystyrene nuggets) and you have a mixture thatll stay wetter longer but also allows air pockets.

I think it might be best to bring in both of those large green cuttings and wait and see what shaped pitchers start to grow before moving outside again in a month or 2 to be on the safe side.

Its not easy to tell with scorched ends but bloody mary has slightly wider leaves than ventrata

Now you mention it those close together leaf points are what bloody mary do, in picture 1

Edited May 28, 2018 by Zerbirus
browser crashed uploading pictures

[carambola]

Honestly, the pots look bone dry and I can't see how they could retain any moisture as it looks like all of the water would just drip out of the bottom. Most of the damage to the plants also looks like it was caused by drying out.

[Karsty]

They really do look very crispy........

 

[Zerbirus]

With sphagnum based mixes water a little so that the top is moist and sometimes the water starts to drain out the bottom, i like to do about 30ml of water every few days in my greenhouse for 9cm pots, give or take upto 50ml for media that dries quicker. A syringe and tube are great for getting to the soil without splatting the leaves instead, allows you to measure how much water youre putting in and makes it easy to go around the pot rather than dumping water in 1 spot. Then water once a week or more once the top gets dry (but not bone dry). just so the top is moist again. It'll depend on your mixes and sun/humidity though. This'll keep the mixture moist but also allow some drying for oxygenating the roots.

If the top is drying and youre unsure wherever or not to water just disturb the sphagnum a little with your finger and if under the top layer its pretty dry then water again. Near whole sphagnum mixes tend to dry quickly, thats partly why i add some peat moss to my mixture.

Note some nepenthes like to go nearly dry then quite a bit of water (northiana for example) and some prefer constant moisture but not wet, all depends on the species, just something to know if you expand your collection.

Something like a bottlecap usb humidifier with a wick is cheap and an easy way to increase humidity standing next to the plants (stay away from ones that float in the water, they break in hours-days, i tried 3 and 1 didnt work on arrival). My bottlecap one survived all autumn, then no use and left in my temperate greenhouse all winter and is now being used again, quite a difference! £5 and plug into a usb port or power bank.

[Karsty]

19 hours ago, Zerbirus said:

Note some nepenthes like to go nearly dry then quite a bit of water (northiana for example) and some prefer constant moisture but not wet, all depends on the species, just something to know if you expand your collection.

Hold on Zerbirus, I've got N. northiana, and I've never let it dry out in any way. Check this out - scroll down to "Habitat and Ecology" - The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species - Nepenthes northiana

Edited May 29, 2018 by Karsty

[Zerbirus]

1 hour ago, Karsty said:

Hold on Zebirus, I've got N. northiana, and I've never let it dry out in any way. Check this out - scroll down to "Habitat and Ecology" - The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species - Nepenthes northiana

Habitat and Ecology:

Apparently confined to limestone cliff faces with permanent water seepage; 300 m alt.

They get a lot of rain from a shower then little to no water retention. I dont let both of mine dry out fully, just more so than others with my mix. I'm not using pumice or any special drainage mix for them. Its just something thats worked for me since I got them, they're only 8cm rosettes at the moment but are putting on pitchers fine with warm temperatures and high humidity.

 

[Whitefox]

The one in the 2 pic is x Rebecca Soper and the last one is the x Lady Luck/Bloody Mary for sure.

[klosi]

Thanks to all who comented and helped me with this problem and my neps collection! Much appreciated. 

The pumice yes... It is my obsession a bit :) and I trust in pumice a lot, they stay wet inside the pot longer then one would expect, but I admit it may not be the best medium for growing neps. I still mixed quite some chopped sphagnum moss inside so the water does flow trough and I do like to leave the soil to dry A BIT, not completly, that would kill them, yet I am affraid of rot and oxygen is important factor for roots as well. 

The bloody mary seems that it has the most pumicei nmix, but it did OK for a season, this year it was almost (I hope almost) fatal for all of my 4 neps that I put them outside too soon. I really doubt they would develop pitchers inside my room

 

The bloody mary will indefinitely stay in the room, others I hope will get outside one day to thrive. 

I'll also check the humidifiers you zerbius mentioned, I didn't know they sell these small ones :)  Does any of other users have good experiences with these?

 

Anyway, thanks to all you guys for advices and help!

[Zerbirus]

2 hours ago, klosi said:

I'll also check the humidifiers you zerbirus mentioned, I didn't know they sell these small ones :)  Does any of other users have good experiences with these?

There have been 100% pumice media and similar but its not the easiest to control with watering. All of these hybrids are really easy to grow in sphagnum mixes with perlite and whatever else you fancy so theres no point in over-complicating things.

There really isnt much to go wrong with wick style humidifers since the wick will draw just enough water unlike the floating ones which rust the insides or i presume short out the insides as i saw black on the disc of one. You could get one with its own container for £10 like the fishtank one, has good reviews and was my next step if the bottlecap one broke which it didnt.

A quick tip with ultrasonic humidifiers is if you use tap water, most impurities wont make it far from the humidifier but next to plants i'd use low ppm water. With bottles, if algae builds up with rain water you can replace the bottle and clean the wick (or use hydrogen peroxide). You can buy replacement wicks but ive never needed to. Theyre also low power usage, i think mine uses 0.3a if i remember the review correctly which showed how it worked.

[Karsty]

9 hours ago, Zerbirus said:

They get a lot of rain from a shower then little to no water retention. I dont let both of mine dry out fully, just more so than others with my mix. I'm not using pumice or any special drainage mix for them. Its just something thats worked for me since I got them, they're only 8cm rosettes at the moment but are putting on pitchers fine with warm temperatures and high humidity.

Zerbirus, can I ask, how did you manage to get hold of this information? I researched about northiana, and only found the "constant seepage" info.

Here's mine. It's been growing well for more than a year. Weirdly it produced larger pitchers first, each new one getting smaller. But it looks very healthy. Yes, I cut out the growing tip after I broke it!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3qHsYRnMhzMtBenv1

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AxrWs5IVmlvTCizC2

Edited May 29, 2018 by Karsty

[Zerbirus]

46 minutes ago, Karsty said:

Zerbirus, can I ask, how did you manage to get hold of this information? I researched about northiana, and only found the "constant seepage" info.

I cant find it now, it was some forum topic i found months ago before ordering, all i see now are topics on high humidity, temperatures and needing a well draining media which burnt clay can help with since they suffer from root rot easily. Might be why i let mine dry out more so with my mix.

[Karsty]

I grow mine in leafmould between tufa rocks.

[klosi]

Thanks again to all of you. I've put the two rebeca sopers outside, semi shaded spot, but with much higher light then inside. 

I'll keep this thread on these 4 neps updated, I hope, so anyone with similar problems or growing conditions could relate to this.