danl82

peat

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Sadly my last bale of shamrock is running low, so i need to try and source some more moss peat. Any help as to where i might get some, I'm in cambridgeshire if anyone happens know a local garden centre.

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You need to look for independent nurseries. Today I bought 200 l of Clover peat from Collyers nursery Borrowash near Derby. Not much use to you, though :roll:

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I feel your pain. Not sure how long it keeps for but I found a garden centre near me selling it and I bought all the last remaining bales (12) as well as 6 bales of another brand (clover I think).


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Have you tried lbs horticulture or

bhgs horticulture ?

or look up a horticulture wholesaler for your area 

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Thanks, i will try to find some independent places and a major distribution centre for westlands is nearby (maybe they could help). 

I had 3 bales that have lasted me for about 5 years, i dont have a massive collection but during the last 2 years have been putting more effort into the hobby and really enjoying the results. But its used up my stock and i kind of missed the fact that all of a sudden the garden centres suddenly had no peat.

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I have three independent nurseries close to where I live that sells peat. Shamrock,clover and two other peats to. Plus a diy store that sells shamrock peat.

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I found some clover brand in a local independent nursery. A bit more expensive than it used to be but 400 litres is safely in my garage. :yes:

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There is a nursery at Melbourn which sells good peat, I think it is J Arthur Bowers. I might be wrong.

 

Down the A10 from the M11, turn left eventually to Melbourn, the nursery is on the right hand side of the back road to the Melbourn Science Park. If you hit the Science Park, you have gone too far.

Incidently, do people know that amateurs will not be able to get peat from 2020 ? It is about time people were using other media to grow in, such as coir or Melcourt composted bark.

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I hadn't heard about the peat not being available from 2020, so good tip, i need to get out and stock up.

Ive not tried composted bark, but coir is very risky, unless you wash it, wash'it again, and keep washing it, then wash it again for good measure.  Nearly killed some orchids in bad coir.

 

 

 

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There is no official ban AFAIK, it's just a voluntary aim that first appeared in a 2010 government white paper. Brexit has thrown a spanner in the works since obviously.

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The coir that I have used is from Garden Direct, never had any problems. I put most of my other houseplants in coir and it is fine. You need to specify the unfertilised stuff.

Interesting about the peat ban. I am only saying what I have heard.

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i wouldn't use coir if they gave the stuff away,bring on brexit

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I know they are not Carnivorous plants, but I am running a trial with some Disa Orchids using the Melcourt Growbark pine with coarse perlite similar to what Mike King is using and so far I can see no difference to using Coarse peat and perlite.

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15 minutes ago, David Ahrens said:

The coir that I have used is from Garden Direct, never had any problems. I put most of my other houseplants in coir and it is fine. You need to specify the unfertilised stuff.

Interesting about the peat ban. I am only saying what I have heard.

House plants are not orchids or nepenthes, and not all coir is equal in quality.  Bad coir will kill orchids and nepenthes, the problem is knowing what is bad and what is good, yes you can test the conductivity, but I don't have the patience or facilities to wash quantities the bad stuff many many times over every time I need to use it.

I've even bought mixes specifically for certain ground orchid genera and it very nearly killed them. 

Frankly, its just too risky on expensive plants and too time consuming.  Would you put a 180 Euro tiny nepenthes in coir, on the off chance it might be ok? Of course not.

Secondly coir has no nutrients, absolutely none, which means you have to fertilise with a good quality fertiliser, another risky business on nepenthes seedlings.  Worse than that, badly prepared coir will absorb the N out of any fertiliser you apply, meaning the seedlings may not get any N even when you fertilise.

Commercial Disa growers have tried Coir with poor results.

And so it goes on.

Yes, very good quality coir is ok for some applications, like some of the tougher orchids, but you cant guarantee getting even mediocre quality.

 

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I don't know if you realise this, but Borneo Exotics grow all their Nepenthes in coir. They can't get hold of peat.

They do a TDA check on each lorry load when it comes in to make sure it isn't soaked in salt.

Sooner or later, you simply will not be able to get hold of peat. You might as well start to experiment now.

Growers have had good results with Melcourt and this may be worth trying.

Manders, I am not trying to antagonise you but some growers are sleep walking into this situation.

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David, i do appreciate the warning, really. 

Yes lots of growers use coir, all thailand orchid growers do, but there coir is washed in fresh water, not salt water.  The problem here is you cant gaurantee that, even with the same supplie, from month to month.  So every time we get a batch of coir, you have to soak it for a week and then take the tds reading, then rinse, soak for a few days etc etc.

Are you really going to risk expensive plants on substrate that could be leaching salt for several weeks after you have potted it up?

The composted bark sounds like a less risky alternative than coir.

 

 

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Most growers are aware that the do-gooder brigade are trying to rail road us into not using peat.

I am well aware of Mikes trials with melcort too.

What is one tiny island banning peat for gardeners going to do when others burn tons of it daily around the world?

I am all for alternatives if they are at least as good as what they replace without the hassle of washing as with coir.Mike hasn't done any tests on growing seedlings from scratch in this new mix.I suspect it will be like moorland gold,and we all know where that went.

We need peat to grow from seed,unless Mikes new mix works out,i think it will need fertilizer to add to it though to be any good for seedlings.

I have seen Mikes results with adult plants and they are good,so far.Whether the bark will break down and cause any mould/fungus problems in the long run is yet to be seen in his or other peoples growing conditions.

Hopefully we can find a good alternative before any ban comes in,otherwise we will all be growing the same old clones again because our options are limited as to what can survive from seed in poor alternatives to peat.

ada

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It's gonna be a strange world when we're sneaking back bags of peat from abroad instead of boxes of fags and bottles of drink after our vacations....... 

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24 minutes ago, Blocky71 said:

It's gonna be a strange world when we're sneaking back bags of peat from abroad instead of boxes of fags and bottles of drink after our vacations....... 

:laugh:

customs officer "whats that in the bags with a shamrock on it sir?"

Sarracenia grower " err, its just booze and fags i promise!"

In all seriousness, i have tried alternatives carefully and they were difficult and not very good with sarracenias to fatal with vfts and droseras. The melcourt that mike has been using definitely seems to be headed in the right direction and i will probably trial some myself at some point soon. Though not without some peat available as a back up, tried using coir for some orchids and a sarra, found it difficult and not good, will not go near it again.

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Hi

95% of the peat bogs in the UK have been destroyed and the UK imports millions of cubic metres of peat each year principally from Eire and the baltic states.  Having destroyed our own peat bogs we are now supporting their destruction in other countries.  There are alternatives available from sustainable sources.

Tim Bailey (past chair of the CPS) has been using coir exclusively and successfully for at least ten years.and has undertaken trials using Melcourt composted fine bark.  The results of the trials have yet to be written up but having seen the trial plants I think they were successful too.  I have been told of one commercial grower in the UK who uses a mix of composted fine bark, sand and peat for sarracenia as it is cheaper than the usual peat and perlite mix.  I have been trying this mix myself for the past year without problems and will be gradually reducing the peat content over time.

The UK government's current target is to remove peat from UK horticulture by 2030.  CPS supports this aim as does the RHS, RBG Kew and many other organisations.

I don't see this changing after Brexit and hope that it doesn't.

One of the main charitable objectives of the CPS is plant and habitat conservation.   Using peat destroys CP habitats.

A quick google search will provide lots of scientifically backed information.

Dennis Balsdon
Chair, The Carnivorous Plant Society

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well said Dennis.  My only hope is that I can get something like Melcourt or decent coir here in Ireland! It's getting hard to get peat here too.  I went to buy a few bales (specially ordered) from my local independent gc at the weekend only to discover that it was Westland that they bought in for me.  My fault for not requesting Shamrock specifically.  

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To be correct, the reality is most of the UK peat bogs were drained for agriculture or forestry long ago, not for peat extraction and certainly not for horticultural reasons.  Currently only 0.3% of UK peat bogs are being commercially extracted.

If you really want to help CP's and the environment in general stop using anything with Palm Oil in it, which is almost everything these days, from toothpaste and shampoo to biodiesel.

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Well said Manders,

 we all know some trials were done with alternatives to peat a few years ago.I asked for the photographic results to prove any results from anyone doing them.

i got none,in fact one well known grower told me personally the results were a total flop,that's why no pictures ever appeared. I was the only one to provide photo's of before and after growth results when going from moorland gold back to peat and the pictures speak for themselves,they are on here too.

Its all very well doing one trial down in the soft south weather and climate,were the trials done further north where the cold wind blows and frost is still about in april? Growing conditions vary greatly in the country,so you can't say trials went well with one person doing it in one place,with no proof.

As i have said again and again,these alternatives are fine to grow adult plants in,they can catch their own food,seedlings need that bit extra that peat supplies.

Come back to me and tell me they are fine when the trails have photographic proof grown against peat side by side like i did with moorland gold over years not just one good growing season.

ada

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