MichalP

N. aristolochioides hybrid riddle

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MichalP    17
I have bought this plant labeled as N. aristolochioides x spathulata, but such hybrid does not seem to exist. Could you try to ID this plant, please?

 

nep1.jpg


 

nep2.jpg


 

nep3.jpg


 

nep4.jpg


 

nep5.jpg


 

Many thanks,

 

Michal

Edited by MichalP

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TCurrell    75

Looks like an aristolochioides x spectabilis however identifying hybrids is very hit and miss.

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MichalP    17

TCurrell: thank You for your reply! I know ID hybrids is quite tricky, but in this case there is not so many posibilities... I bet on maxima x aristolochioides. What do you think?

Edited by MichalP
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TCurrell    75

It could well be a maxima x aristilochioides, the leaf shape would certainly make sense then.

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Dave Evans    97

What about N. bellii x N. aristolochioides???  While it might be N. maxima x N. a., it looks a little too squat...  no?

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Guest Olivermurray7373   
Guest Olivermurray7373

There is a aristolochioides x spathulata, but it does not look like that, I think that dave is the closest but there is also aristolochioides x spectabilis

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Dave Evans    97

Yeah, after looking at more photos, I can rule out N. spectabilis--it produces a different coloration pattern.

 

The spathulata hybrid has a totally different shape.

 

Only N. bellii has the right shape to produce this pitcher, in fact you can see bellii features in this photo: 

http://postimg.org/image/p8gcl5y5p

 

 

and then there is this to consider:

http://cpphotofinder.com/nepenthes-x-bellii-x-thorelii-x-aristolochioides-959.html

Edited by Dave Evans

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MichalP    17
Thank you all for your reply!

 

Dave, bellii is a hot candidate! Thank you for pointing me on it. I made another picture that shows that the pitchers are not so squat.

 

nep6.jpg

 


 

Hmmm, so it is not so easy as I hoped :/

 

Below are links to pictures of hybrids which look almost like my plant:

 

maxima x aristolochioides



 .. other pictures show a big variability of this hybrid

 

bellii x aristolochioides





 

bellii x (thorelii x aristolochioides)


 

Involuntary Bliss = aristolochioides x mira







 

spectabilis x aristolochioides


 .. but this hybrid has striped mouth

 

burbidgeae x aristolochioides


 .. other pictures of this hybrid prove not to be relevant to my plant

 

Which hybrid would you choose? Which do you think is the most closest to my plant? Is still bellii x arist. your favorite?

 

Thank you a lot!

 

Michal

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Dave Evans    97

Well, the thing with N. merrilliana, N. bellii and others in this group are not consistent with the shapes of their pitchers.  I believe this whole group is actually a massive and rather old hybrid swarm.  N. bellii literally switches between making gracilis/alata like pitchers to pitchers that are near round like a ball.

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Dave Evans    97

Look at the wings.  I can rule out all but bellii x aristolochioides and Involuntary Bliss = aristolochioides x mira.

 

The mira looks about right, the wings are only half way down the front of the pitcher...

 

bellii x (thorelii x aristolochioides) has wings the whole down to close to the tendril.

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MichalP    17
I bought this nep during exposition last summer and I think my nep was only aristo-hybrid sold there. So I decided to try to find out a seller and ask him/her for my nep ID. I finally succeeded thanks to Zlatokrt (nickname on this forum). The seller kindly replied to my email and he replied somethink like this:

 

"I looked what hybrids did I have during exposition and yours seems to be N. spathulata x aristolochioides for 99%. Leaves are quite similar to spathulata ones and mouth as well. Then size of plant: I gues plant was about 20cm in diameter and in this size I had only noted hybrid... If you are comparing to BExtotics, then note that BExotics sells this hybrid in several clones. So you cant compare by commonly published photos because your hybrid is slightly different..."

 

So I think riddle solved :)

 

Dave, TCurrell, Olivermurray7373, Welshy: you have my BIG THANKS that you involved to ID my plant!

 

Michal

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Dave Evans    97

Yeah, really.  There is no N. spathulata.  If he bought as that, it was mislabeled from the get-go.

 

However, I do agree that the leaves are spathulate, but so are quite a number of species' and many, many hybrids' leaves.  Including N. aristo itself.

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MichalP    17

Welshy, Dave thank you both for expressing your disagreement!

 

According to your last replies I wrote to the seller there are serious doubt about his labeling. And he replied he tryied to recall what did he sell during exhib and considered more leaves then pitchers as they were small in that time. He admited that in case of doubt it could be aristo x mira. He definitely ruled out a bellii x aristo as he has never had this hybrid in his collection. And he promised to compare plants in his greenhouse and check some documents from exhib time. We will see then... 
 
Michal

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I still think it's got the peristome and pointed pitcher bottom of talangensis....

NEP-TAL-2.jpg

Does the seller have talangensis in his collection ?

Edited by Welshy

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Dave Evans    97

Welshy, both N. aristolochioides and N. talangensis have that feature :)

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Yes, i know they do Dave, and that's why i'm thinking the shape has remained very prominent in Michal's hybrid. We're trying to find out what's mixed with the aristolochioides aren't we ? :rolleyes:

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Dave Evans    97

Well, I don't think N. aristolochioides x N. talangensis would come out with these exact features, but I do understand what you mean about it looking similar to N. talangensis...  Both N. aristolochioides and N. inermis are like more extreme variations of the more basic N. talangensis.  But N. t. and N. a. are sister species with a lot of features in common.

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MichalP    17
Thank you, Welshy and Dave, for your replies!

 

The seller ruled out hybrid with N. talangensis as he has never had it in his collection.

 

He checked if my plant is spathulata x aristo or aristo x mira. And after checking some documents and plants in his greenhouse his final result is that my plant is a spathulata x aristo hybrid. He received spathulata x aristo plants in several clones from Borneo Exotics two yers ago and my plant is one of them. So he insists it is a clone of spathulata x aristo hybrid although it is not a usual one... And he doubt BE had mislabeled it.

 

Here is foto of plitcher of his plant (http://postimg.org/image/s0eqlauhf)

 

DSCN0039.jpg

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Dave Evans    97

How does his plant compare to yours?  To me, they don't appear the same...  But these are flat photographs and sometimes we can't see things correctly...

 

I have received mislabeled plants from BE.  Once, I received N. hispida mixed into a shipment of N. hirsuta (two different species under one tag).  It was nice that I was able to see they were different and segregate them.  I also recall other problems with a hamata hybrid that turned out to be three different hybrids (two of which didn't have hamata as the father)...

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MichalP    17
Dave, thank you for your reply!

 

In reply to my last email the seller noted that he received about 6000 plants from BE by now and there was no mislabeling at all. From every order he keeps a few plants for his collection (he has about 20 000 plants in his greenhouse). In size of my plant he has spathu x aristo hybrid in several clones. Plants of aristo x mira hybrid he has smaller.

 

For me, according to photos I saw and your replies, the winner is aristo x mira hybrid. But the seller seems to have no doubt about spathu x aristo, so I have labeled my plant as spathu x aristo. I believe him...

Edited by MichalP

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NatchGreyes    4

I've also bought plants labeled as BE aristo x ventricosa from a grower. Turns out they were BE aristo x talangensis. Allegedly, the baggies they were sealed in were from BE, meaning someone at BE mislabeled them. You'd really have to wait until that plant gets older to tell for sure, however.

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MichalP    17

So, after two years plant got bigger and finally turned out to be a female of N. aristolochioides x mira (also known as N. 'Involuntary Bliss')...

ari_mira5.jpg

ari_mira6.jpg

ari_mira4.jpg

ari_mira1.jpg

ari_mira2.jpg

ari_mira3.jpg

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