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Dieter

D. indica complex species

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Dear all,

 

many of you will be well aware that Allen Lowrie split the D. indica complex into a number of separate species which are described in detail in his Magnum Opus. I am growing several such variants/species and currently I am trying to put new names to my plants. On the first glance D. serpens seems to be the species I grow the most forms of, but I am not always sure about my ID. Therefore, any feedback is welcome!

 

As it takes some time to prepare the fotos, I will post them here one after the other.

 

I will start today with a - in my opinion - very typical D. serpens, a white flowered form from Sir John Gorge:

 

Here are two pictures I made in 2012 and which I may not have shared yet.

 

Growth point (you can already see some of the typical features on the backside of the new leaf and the flower stalk):

SirJohn_white1.jpg

 

SirJohn_white2.jpg

 

Now a bit more detail on the typical features. Those are - in addition to flower and leaf morphology - the structures forming the indumentum on the stem, leaves and inflorescence. In case of D. serpens there are the translucent small trichomes as well as three types of larger ones: red struktures, some yellow ones which have the shape of a mushroom and translucent Y-shaped ones. 

 

 

 

Here is the backside of a developing leaf. Both the small translucent as well as the large red trichomes are visible. In some forms the number of the red trichomes can be so high that the the leaf appears red at this stage.

SirJohn_white3.jpg

 

Now a flower stalk. Here you can see the red trichomes as well as some of the yellow, mushroom-like structures.

SirJohn_white4.jpg

 

Getting a bit closer makes it a bit easier to see them, however:

SirJohn_white5.jpg

 

Now a section of the leaf axil. Please note that the tentacles do not start directly at the stem as they do in some species. At the stem you can see the yellow mushroom heads and the red trichomes as before. If you look carefully, you will also find the Y-shaped trichomes on the leaf axil.

SirJohn_white6.jpg

 

Another part of the leaf axil reaching to the tentacles:

SirJohn_white7.jpg

 

 

Finally a close-up of a single "Y":

SirJohn_white8.jpg

 

The last picture for today is another stem section showing many of the yellow mushroom heads:

SirJohn_white9.jpg

 

Cheers

Dieter

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Are you sure that the former D. indica "red emergences" is identically with D. serpens? I have D. serpens but without the red emergences and I could not find those emergences been mentioned in the description of D. serpens until now. However, maybe I read it over when skipping within 9 kg of books. The red emergences are also present on the flowers of that variety. Do you find those emergences also on "usual" D. serpens? What do you mean? (Photo by Jeremy Fuqua) 

D_indica_redemergences_02.jpg

Edited by Siggi_Hartmeyer
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Hi Siggi,

 

I do not know the D. indica "red emergences" and therefore I can not answer your question.

However, I would not call all plants with these red emergences D. serpens. Once I get to one of my D. indica variants which bears lots of these emergences, I will show that the flower does not fit to the description of D. serpens. But that will be covered later.

 

Allen writes in his D. serpens description: "D. serpens is distinguished from its closest relatives by its major axis indumentum of many larger red trichomes bearing yellow, eglandular, mushroom-like heads (...), but with a +- double rim around its basal circumference; petiole indumentum free of all long retentive glands, and bearing distinctive, Y-shaped eglandular appendages with translucent white stems and translucent, pale yellow, upper V-shaped segments."

According to this the red emergences are not a feature only found in D. serpens, whereas the yellow "mushroom heads" and the Y-shaped trichomes are.

 

Best regards

Dieter

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Dear all,

 

here are two more forms I would name D. serpens. The first one is a white-flowered form from Weary Bay. Once more I am starting with two old pictures I may not have shared yet.

This form is quite densely covered with the red trichomes and the Y-shaped ones can also be found in abundance. However, I did not find the yellow "mushroom-heads" which should also be there according to the description. Nevertheless, as the other characteristics fit to the D. serpens description, I consider this one a D. serpens form.

 

serpens_Weary1.jpg

 

 

 

serpens_Weary2.jpg

 

 

serpens_Weary3.jpg

 

 

 

 

The next one is a similar situation. This form comes from the Annan River. It has few pale red trichomes, so the overall appearance is much paler than for the two other forms shown above. The Y-shaped trichomes are easily visible, the "yellow mushroom-heads" once more, however, not.

serpens_Annan2.jpg

 

serpens_Annan1.jpg

 

serpens_Annan3.jpg

 

 

serpens_Annan4.jpg

 

serpens_Annan5.jpg

 

 

What do you think of these?

 

Best regards

Dieter

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Hello Dieter, while I can't say you have hybrids; hybrids often confuse the taxonomy of closely related plants and I'm guessing this is likely what is going on.

 

Just because there are some barriers between species doesn't mean the barriers are impermeable.

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Hi Dave,

 

you are right that I can not completely exclude that point, but in the end it remains a speculation. At this stage I am trying to figure out the descriptions the plants do fit in. When it comes to the variability of a given species or form, I need to talk to the experts who have investigated the plants in situ.

 

Best regards

Dieter

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Let's get on to the next one. This one is fitting well into the D. serpens description. It does not show the red trichomes, but plenty of the yellow "mushroom-heads" and Y-shaped trichomes. It is a pink flowered form from Pine Creek. In my setup it usually starts later in the growing season than many other of my indica complex plants.

 

serpens_PineCreek1.jpg

 

serpens_PineCreek2.jpg

 

A couple of macro shots showing the "mushroom-heads" in more detail:

serpens_PineCreek3.jpg

 

serpens_PineCreek4.jpg

 

That is pretty much the limit my equipment can do.

 

To round this up, two older flower shots I presented here some years ago:

serpens_PineCreek5.jpg

 

serpens_PineCreek6.jpg

 

This is the last D. serpens I currently have as a plant this year. At least two other location forms, the Sandy Tate River and Adcock River Crossing forms are quite likely also D. serpens judging from the pictures I previously made and posted. I will confirm that once I grow them again.

 

 

The next ones will be some other species in the complex.

 

 

Best regards

Dieter

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Hello Dieter,

 

In the photos of the flower, the anthers are not symmetrically arranged.

 

I have noticed, in Drosera, hybrids nearly always have asymmetrically arranged anthers.  Of course, this can happen to any flower and sometimes hybrid flowers appear near perfect, but it has been pretty darn consistent over all...

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Hi Dave,

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Do you want to imply that all the plants I am showing here are hybrids of some sort? But what should be the other parent, especially in case of the first generation grown from seeds collected in the wild like the flower picture you are referring to? That would be quite interesting. I have not tried to run any hybridization experiments with the D. indica complex species yet, but I read several times that in situ no intermediates between different species in this complex were not found, even though the plants were growing side by side. This sounds to me like a challenge worth to be investigated by someone.

 

I agree that I can not completely rule out that after several generations the risk is that that some flowers may get insect pollinated, but at least largely the plants still have the characteristics they initially had, so I am quite sure this in not happening very often.

 

Best regards

Dieter

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"I am not sure what you are trying to say. Do you want to imply that all the plants I am showing here are hybrids of some sort? "

 

No, just that when I have grown many Drosera, I noticed the anthers and other flower parts tend to be symmetrically arranged.  As you can see in your photograph of D. bindoon:

 

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=54244

 

 

All the anthers are positioned at nearly equal distances from each other.

 

I've grown several Drosera hybrids and all had asymmetrically arranged anthers/flowers.  Very rarely would hybrid flowers demonstrate symmetry.

 

I am not familiar with these species in particular and cannot say what appears hybrid to me or not. But those flower features are probably a reliable visual indication that hybridization should not be excluded.

 

On other hand, some features are very easy to see, like whether there are petioles or not.  Also, we don't know if there are still more species to be found.  Some of Lowerie's new species have very limited ranges...

Edited by Dave Evans

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Hi Dave,

 

I checked some flower pictures of my pygmy drosera (pure species and hybrids) as you brought up D. bindoon as an example. The pygmy drosera are good for this in my case as I have many pictures and I am quite sure which are hybrids and which are not. On nearly all flower pictures of pure species I found at least one non-symmetrical flower. I can even tell you how you can treat e.g. D. pycnoblasta to form nearly only aberrant flowers (just some heat exposure does the trick quite reliably). On the other hand, the situation with the hybrids is not so much different. The number of aberrant flowers may be overall higher, but I would not dare to use that as a criterion to distinguish between a pure species or a hybrid. No doubt that the D. 'Dorks Pink' has a high tendency to form crippled flowers and one of my hybrids (D. pedecellaris x callistos) may have the same tendency, which still needs to be confirmed, however. But in any case I would place a bet on it that this is just related to a clone, and not a general feature of all hybrids of this parentage. That remains to be shown but I am working on that.

 

One more point: if I would take pictures of my first D. prostratoscaposa flowers and show them here, you would have to conclude that is must be a hybrid of some sort as - for whatever reason I do not know - many of the flowers are deformed one way or another. Not much symmetrical in there. You will find lots of pictures of the same plant flowering in the previous years and those flowers were just normal. Therefore I do not agree that one can conclude from a single flower picture that it is a hybrid plant or a pure species.

 

Best regards

Dieter

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Ok, let's go ahead with D. finlaysoniana. Once more, I am starting with a plant coming from Sir John Gorge. The white flowered one turned out to be a D. serpens above, the pink flowered one quite obviously is a D. finlaysoniana
 
finlaysoniana_SirJohn1.jpg

finlaysoniana_SirJohn2.jpg

 

A typical feature is that the petioles are absent and that the lamina are directly attaced to the main stem. The whole leaf is therefore covered with tentacles on the top surface.

 

The 3rd D. indica form from that location remains to be identified. I do not have suitable pictures or life plants to do this at the moment.

 

A second D. finlaysoniana is the plant from Undara. Here are some pictures from my archive:

finlaysoniana_Undara1.jpg

 

finlaysoniana_Undara2.jpg

 

finlaysoniana_Undara3.jpg

 

 

Best regards

Dieter

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The next species is D. cucullata. I grow one form coming from Beverley Springs. As Dave pointed out some time ago, Beverley Springs Station has been re-named to  Charnley River Station according to Wikipedia. I continue to use Beverley Springs as otherwise it might be difficult for those of you who are trying to put new names on your plant labels which were grown from my seeds.

 

The flowers of this species are quite different from the species shown above which is why I start with some flower shots. Actually, I think the flowers are quite distinctive for this species if I have not missed anything in the Magnum Opus. This is what Allen writes: Drosera cucullata is easily distinguished from other its closest relatives by (...) stamen filaments blood red, deltoid-shaped, curved and hooded like a cobra.

 

cucullata_BevSprings1.jpg

 

cucullata_BevSprings2.jpg

 

cucullata_BevSprings3.jpg

 

 

This species also has red trichomes, but only on the backside of the leaves and on the sepals. They are not on the stem as they may occur in D. serpens.

 

cucullata_BevSprings5.jpg

 

 

Here is a shot from the backside of a leaf:

cucullata_BevSprings6.jpg

 

Finally two macro shots showing the red trichomes (first picture taken of a flower bud, second from a leaf):

cucullata_BevSprings7.jpg

 

cucullata_BevSprings8.jpg

 

 

Cheers

Dieter

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The next species also is quite easy to identify, at least once it starts to produce its typical features. I am referring to D. barrettorum, which has similarities to D. hartmeyerorum in some aspects (but also some differences). For me as a grower one of the obvious similarities is that both species germinate quite late in my conditions (June or even July) making it difficult to obtain seeds in some years. For instance, this year the plants are still quite small so that I am using some pictures from my archive here.

 

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge1.jpg

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge2.jpg

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge3.jpg

 

This species also forms yellow emergences at the base of the leaf as D. hartmeyerorum does, but in contrast to that species they are flattened. Allen Lowrie describes them as potata-crisp-like which I fits quite well in my opinion.

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge4.jpg

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge5.jpg

 

 

The flowers of my plants are of some intense pink

barrettorum_DillieGorge6.jpg

 

barrettorum_DillieGorge7.jpg

 

In my experience it is quite helpful for this species to assist with pollination. There also seem some seeds to be formed without some assistance, but rubbing flowers of different plants increased the number of resulting seeds dramatically.

The seeds are tiny.

 

Cheers

Dieter

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At this stage I think it makes sense to post some D. hartmeyerorum pictures even though this is not a new species and the pictures have been shown before. They are still stored on an older server with limited traffic. In case the are not visible too often, I will relocate them.
 
On some pictures the location is incorrect. Sir John Gorge is correct.

D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_7.jpg


D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_2.jpg

D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_3.jpg

D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_4.jpg

The yellow structures are also found at the inflorescense:
D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_5.jpg

D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_6.jpg


And finally two flower shots:
D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_8.jpg

D_hartmeyerorum_SirJohn_9.jpg

Best regards
Dieter

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Hi Dave,

 

You will find lots of pictures of the same plant flowering in the previous years and those flowers were just normal. Therefore I do not agree that one can conclude from a single flower picture that it is a hybrid plant or a pure species.

 

Best regards

Dieter

Well, I agree very much!  I'm not sure, but I think it is hybrids which cannot make seed which consistently demonstrate asymmetry.  I grown a lot of Drosera hybrids, and it is not clone dependent.  Of course, you may see different things in hybrids I've never looked at...

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Hey Dieter thanks for the pictures, now I have too rename the seeds I got rom you.

Do you have a comparison list of your species already?

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