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S. x Adrian Slack x Judith Hindle(photo update 5/14)


meizwang

  

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  1. 1. The clone below is worthy of a cultivar status



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Meizwang, I fully agree with you. Crossings sarras is 'genetic gambling': many crossings for a few interesting plants. But that's what makes the game exciting.

Next spring I will presumably get one flower on my S. x Adrian Slack (if not eaten by slugs). My best other S. x moorei are still young and will not flower in 2013. I have an adult S. moorei of average beauty but a bit special and really huge, which could be used for hybridization with S. x Adrian Slack in the meanwhile. However I am wondering if the best thing to try would not be to self S. x Adrian Slack. I don't know if anybody has already tried that but I have never seen any picture of S. x Adrian Slack x self. I know that I will probably get few seeds, but anyway, I am curious to see the result. S. x Adrian Slack is really a unique plant and in selfing it, I could possibly get other plants of the same style but not identical.

A question: have you observed significant differences when using S. x Adrian Slack as mother or as father plant?

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Cedric-you have some great questions!

Adrian Slack has been selfed, but I haven't seen the offspring yet(anyone else seen them?) I think the resulting offspring would give us a better understanding of Adrian Slack's parents. Since Adrian Slack originally came from a wild collected plant, we don't know the exact history or parentage, but we're pretty confident, based on the looks, that it's a moorei. It is believed it originally came from Santa Rosa Co, FL, where you typically see fields of S. leucophylla and S. flava var. rugelii mixed together

Adrian slack is a medium vigor clone, so I would suspect if you selfed it, you would have an uphill battle finding both a good looking plant that is also vigorous.

I have seen one instance where selfing a Sarracenia resulted in BETTER looking offspring than the parent, but this is an exception to the rule. S. alata 'night' from Stone Co, MS is an extremely vigorous clone that produces meter tall pitchers and grows like a weed. When you self that plant, some of the offspring are even darker than the parent (literally, they appear black), and they still exhibit vigor, albeit slightly less.

Your second question about the differences in using S. x Adrian Slack as the mother or father plant has intrigued me as well. I have seen LWxAS, but not ASxLW. I have done many experiments with other clones to see if the mother donor's genes dominate the offspring. The results? Many times they do, and many times they don't!

Is the expression of a specific feature (ie. white tops as with Adrian Slack) due to the dominance of the group of the genes that create that feature or is it determined by which plant is used as the mother donor? Perhaps in some cases, both genetics and which plant you use to produce the seed pod affects the dominance of certain gene expressions.

Check out this S. x Leah Wilkerson x Adrian Slack cross created by Brooks Garcia(?) and grown out by Rob Co(Leah wilkerson=mother plant):

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4828551330_f84ed68088_b.jpg Here are some more pics of it: http://sarracenia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hybrids&action=display&thread=392 Notice how the plant looks more like "Leah Wilkerson' than Adrian Slack. However, that's just one select/outstanding seedling, and it's hard to make any conclusions without looking at a large population of offspring and comparing it to the reverse cross, Adrian Slack x Leah Wilkerson.

.

Edited by meizwang
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With the crosses i have done,i have found the mother plant has more influence over the offspring than the father,particularly for shape and size.

This could just be down to my selection process though or enviromental factors such as the cold/damp winters we get, weeding out all the weaker plants before they even get to any decent size.

I am interested in AF plants and breeding better clones but also breeding plants that grow well and colour well in a more northern climate.Sometimes you have to go with what you have or what grows well for you, not the best clones.

One cross i did a few years ago was this

ipx110a. i let Aidan have it first because i wanted to see its full potential.Mine is now 30 inches tall and colours up from top to bottom even in sunless sheffield.But i only kept 4 out of an entire seed pod because the father colours up well but has the "pinched" throat that i hate,so any with that trait went in the bin without mercy.

ada

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Meizwang,

Adrian Slack has been selfed, but I haven't seen the offspring yet(anyone else seen them?) I think the resulting offspring would give us a better understanding of Adrian Slack's parents.

Yes, this is possible.

Since Adrian Slack originally came from a wild collected plant, we don't know the exact history or parentage, but we're pretty confident, based on the looks, that it's a moorei. It is believed it originally came from Santa Rosa Co, FL, where you typically see fields of S. leucophylla and S. flava var. rugelii mixed together

Adrian slack is a medium vigor clone, so I would suspect if you selfed it, you would have an uphill battle finding both a good looking plant that is also vigorous.

In my own conditions (growing outside in Belgium, i.e. in a rather fresh climate), my S. x Adrian Slack (adult plant bought in early 2012) has been growing surprisingly well this summer, much better than most other S. x moorei. This would suggest that this clone would have more flava genes than leucophylla genes (in Belgium, S. flava grows well outside but S. leucophylla poorly). This is also supported by the fact that the shape of the pitchers of S. x Adrian Slack is nearly identical to those of S. flava.

My S. x Adrian Slack made pitchers regularly throughout the season, whilst my S. flava make most of their pitchers all at once and S. leucophylla has two crops of pitchers.

I really think that it would be interesting to self S. x Adrian Slack. This will not necessarily result with a great offspring, but maybe with something unusual or interesting.

I have seen one instance where selfing a Sarracenia resulted in BETTER looking offspring than the parent, but this is an exception to the rule. S. alata 'night' from Stone Co, MS is an extremely vigorous clone that produces meter tall pitchers and grows like a weed. When you self that plant, some of the offspring are even darker than the parent (literally, they appear black), and they still exhibit vigor, albeit slightly less.

I made my first pollinisation experiment 4 years ago. At that time, I had no interesting plants and I selfed a bad clone of S. x moorei with greenish pitchers with faint areolation. I got about 40 seedlings. Most of them are greenish (and will probably result in mediocre plants) but one is very white and will possibly be worth to keep (I'll decide next year when it will be bigger).

I think that selfing is usually not ideal but would be worth to try in the case of very unusual clones.

Your second question about the differences in using S. x Adrian Slack as the mother or father plant has intrigued me as well. I have seen LWxAS, but not ASxLW. I have done many experiments with other clones to see if the mother donor's genes dominate the offspring. The results? Many times they do, and many times they don't!

Maybe in Sarracenia, there is some extra-chromosomal DNA which is only maternally inherited and has influence on the shape and colour of the pitchers of the offspring.

Is the expression of a specific feature (ie. white tops as with Adrian Slack) due to the dominance of the group of the genes that create that feature or is it determined by which plant is used as the mother donor? Perhaps in some cases, both genetics and which plant you use to produce the seed pod affects the dominance of certain gene expressions.

Check out this S. x Leah Wilkerson x Adrian Slack cross created by Brooks Garcia(?) and grown out by Rob Co(Leah wilkerson=mother plant):

http://farm5.static....088_b.jpg Here are some more pics of it: http://sarracenia.pr...d=392 Notice how the plant looks more like "Leah Wilkerson' than Adrian Slack. However, that's just one select/outstanding seedling, and it's hard to make any conclusions without looking at a large population of offspring and comparing it to the reverse cross, Adrian Slack x Leah Wilkerson.

I cannot open the link but I have previously looked at pictures of that plant. As far I know, Brooks Garcia only kept one plant. So this does not inform us about the potential diversity resulting of such crossings. The only thing I can say, is that it is a very beautiful plant. Since "Leah Wilkerson" and "Adrian Slack" are becoming less rare than some years ago, it would not be difficult to repeat the experience. Unfortunately my own specimens of Leah Wilkerson is still young and will probably not make flowers before 2 years.

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Adrian, any chances of division from that plant? :Laie_97: If not, I'd love to see it crossed with AS.

On the subject of being ruthless with seedlings. Imagine you make a cross, and really hope you get something nice,

Nothing amazing comes out, but you get a few notable plants, but nothing great. It would be extremely hard to trash every plant after having to make the cross, and grow the seeds for several years.

Also, if you're newer, like me, trashing seedlings is like committing murder! I think that breeding with skill comes with being experienced in the hobby.

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Dan, all breeding is experience,it gives you an incite into what genes are passed on by particular plants.If you have the space and patience for it you get more selective naturally after a while.

But also in this day and age more and more growers only want the best/most vigorous/rarest clones(just a personal thing i've noted)so this should drive growers from seed to be extra selective.

ada

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Sorry, had some difficulties with posting, but I think things should be better now. Here's a link to some photos of Leah Wilkerson x Adrian Slack: http://farm5.staticf...ed68088_z.jpg��

And here's a post on another forum with some more recent photos of LWxAS clone:http://sarracenia.pr.....ay&thread=392

Notice in this cross, Leah Wilkerson was used as the mother plant, and Adrian Slack was used as a father (pretty ironic too, since LW=a woman, and AS=a man). Leah Wilkerson characteristics are clearly dominant in this clone, but without seeing a large population of offspring, it's tough to make any conclusions about whether or not the fact that Leah Wilkerson was used as the mother plant played a role in phenotypic dominance (in layman's terms, not sure if the fact that we chose Leah Wilkerson as the mom made the offspring look more like the mom than the father)

Cedric-You may be onto something when it comes to the mother's genetic dominance in the offspring. Intuitively, whether my gut feeling is right or wrong, when I see a plant with a characteristic I want, I always use that plant as the mother "donor." For example, if I'm trying to create a round, white-topped plant as you see in Adrian slack, I'll use Adrian Slack as the seed producer.

Edited by meizwang
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Back to the main topic-Didn't realize I haven't posted these pictures yet. Here are some photos of S. x Elaine taken Sept. 29, 2012:

IMG_9275.jpg

IMG_9272.jpg

IMG_9268.jpg

IMG_9274.jpg

The two photos below were taken in October 2012-it looks like the desirable characteristics appear throughout the grow season, and the color seems to intensify a bit when we start getting cold nights:

IMG_9333.jpg

IMG_9334.jpg

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