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mantrid

Pine Needles as a Growing Medium

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Well ... To-Be HONEST ... "I"m Very-'Suspicious' of-You MOBILE ... "I"m-Setting-UP Another Experiment Tomorrow ... &-Depending On-The-Outcome "I'-Reckon "I"ll-Have-You ON-Jam-&-Toast so-to-Speak ... so "I"m Giving-You This 'One'-Chance to-Come Clean so-to-Speak or-Suffer The-Consequences If-Need-Be so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

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Well ... To-Be HONEST ... "I"m Very-'Suspicious' of-You MOBILE ... "I"m-Setting-UP Another Experiment Tomorrow ... &-Depending On-The-Outcome "I'-Reckon "I"ll-Have-You ON-Jam-&-Toast so-to-Speak ... so "I"m Giving-You This 'One'-Chance to-Come Clean so-to-Speak or-Suffer The-Consequences If-Need-Be so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

I have used approximately 3 parts dried pine needles to one part peat, with a 10mm top layer of fresh (green at time of planting) pine needles. I've used an 18cm tall pot, which is standing in approximately 2.5cm tray of deionised water. I have noticed a oil film forms on the surface of the water, which must come from the needles. The VFT was taken out of my bog garden, where is wasn't doing well. The young growth that you see in the centre of the plant has developed since potting in the pine needles on 24th August 2011. It is under 35W of metal halide lighting.

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OUGHT Is The-Verb-of-Science so-to-Speak ... There's NO-'Must' About Anything ... You-Either 'Know' or-You INVESTIGATE & 'Find'-Out so-to-Speak.

Something 'Ought'-to-Work Based ON Previous Knowledge, Research &-Investigation ... though it-May-'Not' so-to-Speak.

You-Feed-or-Spray R Nitrogen-Source On-R-CP &-If-They're Eating The-Insects For-Their Nitrogen-Content ... then-They OUGHT to-Grow Bigger, Better & More-Colourfully ... but If-They Don't &-Go-INTO R-Quiescent-Phase ... Then The-Theory Needs-to-be Reaccessed &-Perhaps Modified IN-The-Light of Further-Investigation so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

If-You're-R Growing-Them Under-Lights ... Then-it-Would be More-Honest to-Photograph-Them Growing-Under-Lights so-to-Speak ... Photographing-Them Outside Could-be Considered Misleading.

"I"-Have Misgivings Regarding The Moss-Growing ON Pot-A ... Considering You-R Reputedly Growing These-Plants UNDER Metal-Halides!!!??? >(*~*)<

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Pot 'A' is not my plant, it's mantrid's. I think that you are getting confused between posts. Mine does not have moss growing on the surface. I stated that mine is growing under metal halide lighting and all the photos I have taken are with the plant illuminated by this lamp.

This is my plant, photographed under the metal halide lamp:

2.JPG

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"I"-Have Misgivings Regarding The Moss-Growing ON Pot-A ... Considering You-R Reputedly Growing These-Plants UNDER Metal-Halides!!!??? >(*~*)<

You are confused. Read post 1

.

.

.

and thanks Defalotus

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OK ... So-We've-'Got' TWO-People Conducting TWO-'Different' Pine-Needle Experiments IN-The-'One'-POST so-to-Speak ... so-THART-May 'Explain' The-Conflicting Results ... so "I"ll Give-Apologies to BOTH-Persons. >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

That-Also Clears-UP The-Placing of The Pine-Needles ON-Top >(*U^)<

OK ... Now With-THART Out-of-The-Way ... "I'-'Want'-to-'Know' Why-MANTRIDS Plants R-Soo-Colourful If-He's 'Just'-Using Sunlight &-'Normal'-PEAT so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

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OK ... Now With-THART Out-of-The-Way ... "I'-'Want'-to-'Know' Why-MANTRIDS Plants R-Soo-Colourful If-He's 'Just'-Using Sunlight &-'Normal'-PEAT so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Why wouldnt they be? They have everything they need to be so.

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I'd fully expect mantrid's plants to have good colouration, as they are growing in natural sunlight. Whereas mine is under artificial light, which is clearly not providing sufficient quantities of the correct wavelength for good colouration. My plant is also very upright, which it was not when grown in my bog garden, so I suspect this is something to do with light too. I am going to keep my plant growing through winter, so will see what happens to it long-term.

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"I"-Was 'Thinking' LAST-Night THART-"I"-Was One-of-The-'First' to-Complain Long, Hard &-Loud ABART The-NEW CPUK-Format With Smaller Avatar-Icons Etc, Etc ... so-Again ... Is-It Possible For-People With MOZART-Vision to-Return to-The-'Old'-System so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< PLEASE

OK ... With-THART Out-of-The-Way "I"d Like to-State That-"I"ve 'Had' Nearly 40-Years-Worth of Experience with Peat &-Other CP-Related Materials ... so-Unless You're using Some NEW Wonderous Moorland-GOLD Harvested-from Radioactive-Mine IN-Southern-Germany, Midland-China or the Outer-Moons-of Jupiter ... "I"-Have-to-say "I"-Personally don't 'Buy'-It ... but-Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me.

If-You-Were to-Say The-Plants Were Suffering-from: "LUXURY-Potassium-Consumption" ... "I"d-Be More-Inclined to-'Believe'-You ... For-"I"ve Always Loved-R-Good Story with Some Scientific Connection or Background so-to-Speak ... but-Again Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)<

Anyway "I"ll-be Interested to-See if MANTRID Can Get-His-Traps to FOUR-Inches IN-Size ... Which "I'-Doubt He'll-be Able to-Obtain If-Indeed He-IS Using High-Potassium-Levels to-Promote Colouration so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

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Anyway ... "I"ll-Try to-Eventually Match-MANTRID's-Plants IN-NEWSPAPER-Cellulose ... though "I"m More-Interested IN-Determining The-Factors That Control CYANOBACTERIAL-Growth so-to-Speak ... Since-These-Organisms R-Apparently The-Source of CP-Stature so-to-Speak ,,, Though Finding-Out What Makes-Them Grow IN-CP-Soils & Getting-Them to Enter The-Plant IN-R Symbiotic-Relationship Is-an Irksome-Task "I'-Can 'Assure'-You ... Especially When Trolling The-Net Would Suggest That One-of-Their Key-Requirements Is-CALCIUM ... An-Element CPs R-'Suppose' to-Detest so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

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"I"-Was 'Thinking' LAST-Night THART-"I"-Was One-of-The-'First' to-Complain Long, Hard &-Loud ABART The-NEW CPUK-Format With Smaller Avatar-Icons Etc, Etc ... so-Again ... Is-It Possible For-People With MOZART-Vision to-Return to-The-'Old'-System so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)< PLEASE

OK ... With-THART Out-of-The-Way "I"d Like to-State That-"I"ve 'Had' Nearly 40-Years-Worth of Experience with Peat &-Other CP-Related Materials ... so-Unless You're using Some NEW Wonderous Moorland-GOLD Harvested-from Radioactive-Mine IN-Southern-Germany, Midland-China or the Outer-Moons-of Jupiter ... "I"-Have-to-say "I"-Personally don't 'Buy'-It ... but-Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me.

If-You-Were to-Say The-Plants Were Suffering-from: "LUXURY-Potassium-Consumption" ... "I"d-Be More-Inclined to-'Believe'-You ... For-"I"ve Always Loved-R-Good Story with Some Scientific Connection or Background so-to-Speak ... but-Again Perhaps THART's 'Just'-Me so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)<

Anyway "I"ll-be Interested to-See if MANTRID Can Get-His-Traps to FOUR-Inches IN-Size ... Which "I'-Doubt He'll-be Able to-Obtain If-Indeed He-IS Using High-Potassium-Levels to-Promote Colouration so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

The plants take nutrients from the media and from the insects they catch. They are in full, direct sun all day. Again why wouldnt they have a natural red colour to the inside of the trap as do the VFT growing in the wild. I doubt that someone spends their life wandering around the the borders of north and south Carolina feeding potassium to the VFTs there. I think you must be trying to pull my leg :)

And I am certain they wont develop 4" traps as I have had this plant for about 5 years and it has only managed 3.5" so far.

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Anyway ... "I"ll-Try to-Eventually Match-MANTRID's-Plants IN-NEWSPAPER-Cellulose ... though "I"m More-Interested IN-Determining The-Factors That Control CYANOBACTERIAL-Growth so-to-Speak ... Since-These-Organisms R-Apparently The-Source of CP-Stature so-to-Speak ,,, Though Finding-Out What Makes-Them Grow IN-CP-Soils & Getting-Them to Enter The-Plant IN-R Symbiotic-Relationship Is-an Irksome-Task "I'-Can 'Assure'-You ... Especially When Trolling The-Net Would Suggest That One-of-Their Key-Requirements Is-CALCIUM ... An-Element CPs R-'Suppose' to-Detest so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Trying to match growth of your plants to mine is pointless as they are gentically different so any result, larger or smaller cannot be attributed to the growing media alone.

I have not seen any research on symbiotic relationship between cyanobact and vfts I would be interested in some links to this research.

Calcium is an essential element in cell function and is therefore required by VFTs. They might not be able to tolerate hight levels as you say, but they will be taking it up in some way.

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"I"-Don't Want to-Compare The-EINSTEIN of The Chimp-World to The-'Hairest'-Person On-The-Planet so-to-Speak ... Even-though We're 'Suppose'-to-Share 98% of Our Genomes.

But-"I"m 'Still' HUNGRY to-Learn The-INs-&-OUTs of The-Venus-FLYTRAP ... &-"I"m Quite-Prepared to-Be Fully-FOOLISH ABART Just-'How' "I"-Go-About-It so-to-Speak ... so-"I"Guess It's Another-Example of AESOP's:"Tortoise-&-The-Hare" so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****

As-to The-Calcifuge-Barrier ... If-You're 'Not'-Interested IN-Determining 'Why' Some-CPs Grow-On Calcium-Rich Soils &-Others Within The-'Same'-Genus, Even, ... Detest-it ... Well All-"I"-Can Say Is THART "Something' Will Come-of-This-Kind-of-Knowledge When-it-Is Finally Uncovered so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****

Considering The Amount-of Cyanobacteria Festooning Resplendant-Pots of Flytraps These-Days ... "I'-"Find' The-Questioning of-R-Connection Somewhat-IRONIC so-to-Speak.

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When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

****

In my experience sunlight is the limiting factor controlling deepness of colour. Providing the plant is capturing sufficient insects to provide the neccesary nitrogen to produce the protein based pigments, other factors such as growing medium are not as critical.

re your experiment, I dont see how cellulose is of any benefit to the plant. Its just a polymer of sugar molecules that will be slowly broken down by microbes releasing co2 and water. Theres no nitrogen there that will aid growth of a plant. If it has a function it would only be a structural one to the medias physical properties, and I doubt it would be much use at that as far as I can see so to speak

****

Considering The Amount-of Cyanobacteria Festooning Resplendant-Pots of Flytraps These-Days ... "I'-"Find' The-Questioning of-R-Connection Somewhat-IRONIC so-to-Speak.

Im not questioning it just interested in where the research is. Still waiting for those refs/links. Cyanobacteria grow wherever there is light and moisture regardless of whether vfts are there or not. Just so happens vfts are found in these conditions to along with thousands of other spp. Are you saying that anything growing alongside cyanobacteria are in some kind of symbiotic relationship?

I think the only thing that will happen to a vft planted in that soup you have made is that it will rot. Its too wet, theres not enough aeration and it will harbour a miriad of bacteria and fungi that may also harm your vfts

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Mantrid and Mobile i think both your plants look amazing =D Mantrid especially the VFT in pot A that colouring is just beautiful =D wish my VFTs would colour like that =P

Davion no offence but why do you have to question everything, no one here is competing its just a bit of experimental fun, also your posts are incredibly hard to read =)

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Mantrid and Mobile i think both your plants look amazing =D Mantrid especially the VFT in pot A that colouring is just beautiful =D wish my VFTs would colour like that =P

Davion no offence but why do you have to question everything, no one here is competing its just a bit of experimental fun, also your posts are incredibly hard to read =)

Thanks, Theres no secret its just about light. Mine are outside in direct sun all day

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Yeah mine are in my conservatory which gets mostly direct sun too, im going to try putting them outside next spring/summer as they did have pretty nice colouring this spring/summer, i also have a little VFT seedling in with one of my others which im going to try putting in pine needles as we have plenty of them around where i live, give this experiment a go see if i can make it work =D

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Yeah mine are in my conservatory which gets mostly direct sun too, im going to try putting them outside next spring/summer as they did have pretty nice colouring this spring/summer, i also have a little VFT seedling in with one of my others which im going to try putting in pine needles as we have plenty of them around where i live, give this experiment a go see if i can make it work =D

good luck

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When-"I"m Growing Large, Colourful ... FAST-Growing CPs IN NEWSPAPER-Cellulose &-You're 'Still' Stuck-IN ILL-Defined PEAT ... "I"-'Know' Who Between The-Two-of-Us Who-Will-be Taken More-Seriously as-Well-as Command The-Most Respect so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

With all due respect Davion, I have seen many experiments over the years and newspaper cellulose seems to be your latest, so I'm sure that you will understand that I will reserve judgement until I see evidence of any long-term success. Over those same years I have seen thousands of plants growing quite happily in 'ILL-Defined PEAT'.

It could be argued that recycled paper kitty litter is somewhat undefined, as I am doubtful that you could trace the raw material back to its origin and then determine what chemicals and fillers were used in the process of producing the paper, what inks were used in the print, chemicals used in any de-inking and those used in the recycle pulp. So, even if you have success with it, recycled paper kitty litter from another source or even a different batch of the same brand might be unsuccessful.

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""Providing the plant is capturing sufficient insects to provide the neccesary nitrogen to produce the protein based pigments, other factors such as growing medium are not as critical"

'Still' Stuck-IN The-'Dark'-Ages Apparently!!!??? >(*~*)< Geez ... "I"-'Thought' "I"-Use to-Be Soo-GULLIBLE ... Kept-IN-The-Dark &-Fed-ON COMPOST so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

"I dont see how cellulose is of any benefit to the plant. Its just a polymer of sugar molecules that will be slowly broken down by microbes releasing co2 and water" ...

Well "I"-'Suppose' You're @-Least Acknowledging CELLULOSE to-be R-Microbial Food-Source ... so-"I'-"Suppose' THART Gets-You One-Step-Closer to-Acknowledging The-Existence of Cyanobacteria IN-CP-Soils "I"-'Suppose'.

Will-You 'Enterain' The-Notion That For Cyanobacteria to-Grow-On R-Cellulose Medium WITHOUT Nitrogen they have to 'Fix'-It from The-Atmosphere Themselves so-to-Speak!!!??

Hopefully It's-R_Short-Distance From one-Brain-Cell-to-the-Next to-Consider that Instead of Breaking-Down The-Cellulose & Fixing-Nitrogen it-Would be Far Easier to-'Just' Let-The-Plant Feed-You Glucose & IN-Return-for THART Do-Something You-Can 'Do' IN-The Dark 24-7 & For The Plant to-Rely-On-R Fungus to-Obtain Carbohydtrate From the Soil that-It can Also 'Do' 24-7 so-to-speak Advantage ALL-Organisms so-to-Speak Way-to-Go Evolution Along Darwinian-Principles so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

But Then-again You-Were Never-Noted for-You 'Resistence to-NEW-Ideas Were-You so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

rr'

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Will-You 'Enterain' The-Notion That For Cyanobacteria to-Grow-On R-Cellulose Medium WITHOUT Nitrogen they have to 'Fix'-It from The-Atmosphere Themselves so-to-Speak!!!??

Yes. However, wheres the evidence of a symbiotic relationship with VFTs? Ive never seen nodules on a VFT. I dont rule it out but you state it as fact, wheres the evidence.

Hopefully It's-R_Short-Distance From one-Brain-Cell-to-the-Next to-Consider that Instead of Breaking-Down The-Cellulose & Fixing-Nitrogen it-Would be Far Easier to-'Just' Let-The-Plant Feed-You Glucose & IN-Return-for THART Do-Something You-Can 'Do' IN-The Dark 24-7 & For The Plant to-Rely-On-R Fungus to-Obtain Carbohydtrate From the Soil that-It can Also 'Do' 24-7 so-to-speak Advantage ALL-Organisms so-to-Speak Way-to-Go Evolution Along Darwinian-Principles so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

This doesnt make any sense. It appears you are just using scientific terminology interspersed amongst a confusing way of writing to make it look to the average person that it is real science.

I have found no real research on the claims you are making from your posts here and in other forums. When the phrase 'calcifuge barrier' is searched nothing but posts by you self appears. What actually is this barrier?

But Then-again You-Were Never-Noted for-You 'Resistence to-NEW-Ideas Were-You so-to-Speak!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

rr'

??? You dont know me

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What I find amazing is that people actually read (and partially understand) Mr. Davion's posts. I have long since given up.

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Greetings from Istanbul,

I've been also using pine needles but in little amount. Unfortunately I am not an aged VFT grower so I couldn't tell you if it makes a difference or how much of a difference it makes...It hasn't been that long but the plants you will see below were potted into a pine mix at the beginning of summer and this is going to be their first dormancy. They all had 2-3 leaves back then, I wish I had taken a picture but I didn't.

In case you are curious; my mix is %50 perlite, %25 peat, %25 pine needles and topped with live sphagnum. The sphagnum is partly very black; I suspect that's due to an insecticide (sp?) I have sprayed lightly. However, I have also sprayed a few home recipes (against mites) so I don't really know which one is the culprit.

ps: I don't ever feed any of my plants. They are all on the balcony taking care of it themselves. In case you wondered about that oversized fly trapped... :)

vvvjl.jpg

Edited by maxxima

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So far it seems the pine needles can certainly be used as a perlite substitute, and are far more sustainable and environmentally friendly. Perlite has to be purchased and isnt cheap it is also mined which takes energy and inpacts on the environment. its actually expanded by heating to 1200c again requiring large amonts of energy. If my plants are growing well in pine needles in a years time I think I will replace my use of perlite with needles

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