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Fernando Rivadavia

Help with Pinguicula setup

216 posts in this topic

I don't understand. Do you grow these species wet year-round or not?? If not, what do you do in the dry season?

I know I am not Joseph but I can answer as I have followed most all of his threads over the years. He groew all of his Mexi-Pings wet, and that does include the species you asked about. :)

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Hello Joseph,
Of your list of species which may not appreciate being WET year-round, I am growing the following: P. medusina, P. rotundiflora, P. cyclosecta, P. laueana, P. esseriana, and P. gypsicola. Some of the others I am also growing are: P. macrophylla, P. debbertiana, P. jaumavensis, and P. hemiepiphytica.

I don't understand. Do you grow these species wet year-round or not?? If not, what do you do in the dry season?

Take care,

Fernando Rivadavia

I grow ALL in trays of water, year-round.

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Instead of Schultz aquatic plant soil, you should see if there is a granular cat litter product available of 100% mineral composition, without additives, preferrably fired so the granules do not readily crumble once the material is wetted. I have used such a product, in place of the aquatic plant soil, without problems.

Seeing as how we are both Americans and would be aware of much the same commerical products, is the particular brand name or product that would fit this description? Would a "crystal" cat liiter work or scoopable or clumping...?

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The composition of the media should be done with the local avalaiblity :

part one : draining part : sand, crushed rocks, volcabic rock, pumice, perlite, vermiculite...

Part two : calcareous part : cat mineral litter, gypsum, marly limestone, marble...

Part 3 : organic part if wished : compost of oak leaves for exemple, no peat moss.

As Joseph do, I put twice a year some crushed flask fish food on the leaves of my plants.

I don't put foliage fertilization.

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Instead of Schultz aquatic plant soil, you should see if there is a granular cat litter product available of 100% mineral composition, without additives, preferrably fired so the granules do not readily crumble once the material is wetted. I have used such a product, in place of the aquatic plant soil, without problems.

Seeing as how we are both Americans and would be aware of much the same commerical products, is the particular brand name or product that would fit this description? Would a "crystal" cat liiter work or scoopable or clumping...?

jimscott,

The cat litter I obtained and used, to try it out, is a generic product distributed by WalMart, just called, "Special Kitty", Cat Litter. No fragrance or other additives. If you're adventurous and have plants to sacrifice, as I usually do, you probably still wouldn't want to try cat litter with any additives. Just the idea sounds wrong for CP. Besides, it is usually more expensive than the plain generic stuff. I used a kitchen stainless steel screen strainer to sift the fine particles out, tried some with and without the fines, did not notice any difference. I generally use the Schultz product because it is even more durable than the cheaper cat litter product.

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LOL! I've got a few extra P. luscitanica and P. primulifora and P. 'Sethos' to play around with - but not the P. gypsicola!!!

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LOL! I've got a few extra P. luscitanica and P. primulifora and P. 'Sethos' to play around with - but not the P. gypsicola!!!

I propagate Mexican Pinguicula in several different ways. Nearly every time I repot or transplant them, I remove several to many healthy older leaves, winter form or summer form, I don't really care, they all work to propagate with. Here is a description of some of the ways I propagate; 1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves. --- Once the leaves have formed plantlets, I keep them as they are, until I have space to plant them into community or individual pots. They can remain in this small plantlet stage for many months, 6 months or more are not uncommon. If I don't manage to find space to plant them out into community or individual pots before they run out of resources, they will be lost. So I endeavor to make room for the new propagules, and am often successful, though not always (sometimes the new plantlets die before I have room for them). Needless to say I have no shortage of propagules, what I am short on is space to grow them out. I have more than 100 shoebox sized trays of mature, or near mature plants, and scores of gallon ziploc bags full of community pots, and many more cups, plates, small ziploc bags of leaf-pullings and/or small plantlets waiting to be potted and grown out.

I guess you could say I am a propagating fool. I most always have plenty of plantlets to test various theories on. Its a good thing plants are not considered the same as animals or the S.P.C.A. or rather the (S.P.C.P.) would probably have locked me up decades ago.

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Hey Joseph,

1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves.

What's the length of time between steps 2 & 3?

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Hey Joseph,
1) lay the leaves out on a small paper plate, write the name on the plate. 2) drop the severed leaves into transluscent plastic cups with a label, stack them up and put them in a bright location. 3) fold a clean paper towel so it fits into a ziploc bag, then drop the leaves and label into the bag, seal it and clip it to a pegboard I have, with clothes pins glued to it, so as to hang the bags of leaves.

What's the length of time between steps 2 & 3?

Actually 1, 2, & 3 are not steps, but different ways of keeping leaf-pullings, from the time they are removed from the parent plant, until I either wait too long and they perish, or I pot them up and they become a thriving colony of little Pinguicula plants.

I am putting this in red, because it is one of the most important details in getting plantlets from leaf-pullings, instead of a container of composted, rotten, leaves. Do not add moisture to the leaves, at any time before plantlets have formed. Even then it is potentially disastrous. The paper towl in the ziploc is there to absorb excess moisture from the leaf-pullings once they transpire it. The paper plate is open to the air, but until plantlets have formed it is best to keep water off of the leaves and plate. The plastic cups are similar to the paper plate method, and I suggest also avoiding free water on the leaves, at least, until plantlets have formed. Too much moisture on leaf-pullings will almost always result in rotten mush, instead of plantlets. The only exception I've experienced is when using live Sphagnum moss for the media. Its properties seem to be very effective in preventing this leaf-pulling rot.

If you mean, how long do I have to wait after removing the leaves from the parent plant, before there are plantlets that can be planted into individual or community pots. It varies, most often it takes about 2 weeks for the plantlets to form. Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. Once the plantlets have formed they can often be held in that state for a very long time, or planted right away if there is space for them.

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Joseph, i had to do a double take when i read your statement in red. I had not heard that ping leaves should be kept dry!!

i have always thought to keep them moist to prevent them from drying out. I do occasionally lose some to rot, so i guess i should try your method.

Thanks for the info!

Peter 8)

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I speak from disastrous experience about having wet leaves. This past spring I thought I'd take my collection outside, in the hopes that I could attract the natural pollinators. This was how they looked just before I took them out:

Strausplants002.jpg

Unfortunately, I didn't anticipate a rainstorm that persisited for hours, overhwelming the storage conatiner that they were in. By the time I got home from work, plants and leaves were scattered. Although I drained the excesss water and moved to under the porch, the damage was done. The 2 plants that were flowering, died a slow death. The flowers withered. The leaves paled out and died. Some plants died weeks later and others stayed in a small state. I put them back and the attic, where they had been doing just fine. trust me, pings don't like having their leaves wet!

I can attest to the barely moist media in a baggie, at an east window for leaf propogation. Oddly, I learned that through Wicked Thistle, who learned that fom Pyro, who credits Joseph Clemens. The method may have been tweaked slightly by the time I learned it.

Another technique that works well, is one I adopted from a hobbyist called Capslock, and you can see a bit of it in the picture. Instead of putting a leaf in a sealed baggie or whatever, the leaf is placed either flat on exposed media, next to the mother plant, or with the basal part slightly and loosely embedded in the media, which for me is LFS.

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Or you could just use a pot. ;)

-Ben

lol!...:roll:

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Actually 1, 2, & 3 are not steps, but different ways of keeping leaf-pullings

Aahhhhhhh. Now I get it. Thanks again for posting all this good info. :shock:

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I was looking at some pics of pings growing in the wild and I got and idea. Maybe you already use it but I was thinking- You could make a drip wall/waterfall for your room. Not only that it would be a place to grow your pings but it would also be a decoration to your room. It could be made just like the aquarium backgroungd are made from styrofoam and than painted. You can stick actual rock on it and sand so it can REALLY look like a rock. The water pump from the tub or an aquarium it stands in would provide water.

How's that for an idea?

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The dripping wall is a very nice idea. I'm sure it will work if you have lots of room and just a few plants. By few, I mean, less than several hundred. I hope to someday set one up to see how plants will perform in such a simulated natural environment.

Meantime I have this Pinguicula cultivating "habit", that requires me to keep many hundreds of plants and to continuously propagate them, creating thousands of them and to seek out those I am not presently growing. Even now I cannot entirely keep up with the chores which this "habit" has created. Though it is a labor of love, my other responsibilities sometimes experience overlap conflict and vice versa.

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Yes I was thinking a few plants- but my main concern would be- what about light. Pings look gr8 when they are coloured. And since they would be far away from the lights they would remain green. Some "deep penetrating" light should be used.

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Yes I was thinking a few plants- but my main concern would be- what about light. Pings look gr8 when they are coloured. And since they would be far away from the lights they would remain green. Some "deep penetrating" light should be used.
Yes, perhaps a High Pressure Sodium (HPS) or Metal Halide (MH) lamp of medium to high wattage, or a combination might do a good job of illuminating the wall.

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I know pings should be grown closer to the neons, but what is the distance, is 40 cm too far?

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I know pings should be grown closer to the neons, but what is the distance, is 40 cm too far?
For me that would be, yes -- 40 cm (15.75 inches) is way too far. Most of mine are within 5.5 inches (14 cm). Many are much closer even than that to the fluorescent lights.

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Hello everyone,

Here's an update on this >5 year project. My Pinguicula wall has finally become a reality thanks to my friends Stephen Davis, Edward Read and Megan Andersen.

After lots of planning, discussing, & buying materials, we all got together last Sunday May 20, 2012, at Stephen's house in San Jose, CA. Ed & Megan came from Los Angeles and I drove down from San Francisco. We began at 10am, worked until around 6pm, then took everything to S.Francisco and mounted the Pinguicula wall along a concrete beam I have facing a window at my place, finishing around 11pm.

See below some great pics taken by Megan to record the whole saga.

Step 1: Cut the "eggcrate" to the right size

IMG_5212.jpg

Step 2: Cut the plastic sheet which will go behind the Ping panels... well, you'll see this later

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Step 3: Cut the gutter, where the Ping panels will eventually sit inside and which will hold water, as well as the wooden beans to which the gutter will be attached

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Step 4: Make sure gutter and wood beams are same length

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Step 5: Paint the beams

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Step 6: Cut the bird netting which will hold the sphagnum over the eggcrate

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Step 7: Prepare the Ping soil - I mixed unknown amounts or perlite, vermiculite, peat and "water crystals" (tiny pellets that absorb tons of water and become a gel)

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Step 8: Layer wet long-fiber Chilean sphagnum over eggcrate

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Step 9: And now the most time-consuming part of the process, sewing the bird netting to the eggcrate with fishing line to hold the sphagnum in place

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Step 10: Sew back and forth, side to side, and all around the edges

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Step 11: When done, flip it over carefully

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Step 12: Spread Ping soil smoothly over the eggcrate

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Step 13: Cover soil with a new layer of sphagnum

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Step 14: And begin sewing the other side all over again

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Step 15: After 1st panel is finished, repeat it all for a 2nd panel

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Step 16: Endless sewing

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Step 17: Finally, both panels are finished!

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Step 18: Load everything in Stephen’s van

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Step 19: Lay everything out on the floor of my apartment and drill holes to attach wooden beams together

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Step 20: Call for pizza, stop to eat, and go to hardware store to buy missing parts & pieces

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Edited by Fernando Rivadavia

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Step 21: Raise the wood beams and hold them there

IMG_5545.jpg

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Step 22: Drill the wood into the walls

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Step 23: You think it’ll hold?

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Step 24: Attach the gutter to the wood

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Step 25: Raise the (heavy) sphagnum panel with the plastic sheet on the back (to protect the wall)

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Step 26: Place first sphagnum panel inside gutter

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Step 27: Tie it down – after all, don’t forget S.Francisco has frequent earthquakes!

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Step 28: Place 2nd panel

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Step 29: And we’re ready for the 1st Ping! All hands together!

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Step 30: The proud owner and his Ping wall

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Step 31: Safety improvements added today

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Next step: Although some sunlight light comes through the window, it is not enough for the Pings. I need to attach lights to the ceiling. I’m considering an LED strip of some sort. I recently bought an LED fixture for my aquarium and am very happy with it. Any suggestions regarding cheap strips and what color LEDs? I probably don’t need too much more light. It seems hydroponic lights may be a good option. Interesting to see what a mixture hydroponic LEDs seem to be: blue, red, orange and white.

Ah! I also need to finish planting all the Pings Ed & Stephen gave me and wait for them to grow and flourish so I can post updates. Wish me luck!! :)

THANKS TONS TO STEPHEN, ED & MEGAN FOR YOUR HELP!!

Best Wishes,

Fernando Rivadavia

P.S. Here's a pic taken over a year ago at Ed's house in LA where we were trying to find out what was the best wicking material for my future Ping wall. Each sock was stuffed with either sphagnum, perlite, crushed marble, or... I can't remember what the others were. The tips of the stuffed socks were dipped in water with some dye, I forget what also. But after several hours, sphagnum was the clear winner.

ExperimentingwithsoilsEdReadinLA2011-02-20.jpg

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia

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It's been waaaaay too long since I last logged into CPUK! Thanks for forcing me to do so Fernando! And I'm so glad you were pleased enough with the results to post the pictures here! What will you have us build on our next visit?

xoxo

Megan

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Hi Fernando,

Very impressive set up. No doubts that when one have seen Pinguicula in habitat he can't forget it.

Cheers

Eric

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